I used to feel that way every time I was asked to pray out loud for a group, especially if asked to pray out loud before eating. Everything one says is pure rote and simply mimicking what everyone else has said a thousand times before. It felt so fake and unnatural. I never understood where the idea of praying before every meal came from. To thank Jehovah for providing our food is to say he is also responsible for the starving people not having any. Toward the end of my JW career, I began turning down requests to pray out loud. I remember sitting at a table full of people when it came time to say the obligatory prayer. I had my head bowed hoping they wouldn't ask me. Of course someone said "exwhyzee, would you like to say the blessing?" I simply said "no thank you" and kept my head bowed. It was awkward but it worked.
exwhyzee
JoinedPosts by exwhyzee
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Did you ever hear yourself as a JW say something and think, did that just come out of my mouth?
by Wasanelder Once ini was driving with a long time non-witness friend when a song by supertramp came on the radio and i changed it.
she asked "why did you do that?
i like that song.
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Tragedy and God's Will
by cultBgone init's utterly amazing to me how religious belief in an omnipotent deity shapes some people's thinking.. one woman whose family missed the air asia flight which crashed stated that it was god's will to give her father hepatitis so that she canceled her family's vacation trip on that flight.
she says she believes god saved her family and protected them.
however, she later mourns the fact that she lost friends on the flight...so does she believe god deliberately planned for them to die?
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exwhyzee
A few years ago, my Mother in Law got a large $ettlement from a class action suit against the government because her husband died of cancer at 48 after a work related exposure to radiation. She didn't even know she was part of the suit until some awful worldly people investigated his death, tracked her down, alerted her to her eligibility and helped her every step of the way.
She viewed the settlement as a direct blessing from Jehovah and an indication that he wanted her to continue regular Pioneering. (30+ years). I very gently (in so many words) reminded her that yes, the settlement was a good thing, but to say it was from Jehovah was almost like saying Jehovah wanted all those people (including her husband) to die from radiation exposure so that she would have enough money to continue pioneering. The cognitive dissonance immediately kicked in and she found a way to make it work out in her own mind.
Although very healthy otherwise, she is now losing her memory and the family is dependent on that money for her long term care, however we recently found a large brochure that the WT Society sent her, outlining all the different ways she can give them the money Jehovah blessed her with. (I wonder how they knew?).
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Do you have someone you trust?
by myjourney inhi, i'm a newbie around here.
i've been reading the posts, but reluctant to step out of my safe zone.
i definitely see how coming to a safe place to ask questions, vent, etc.
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exwhyzee
It's difficult to tell your JW story to someone who's never been a JW before. They really don't quite get what the big deal is and what took you so long to figure things out. That's one of the main reasons why this site is so helpful. You have an opportunity to safely tell your tale of woe to people who really get what you're saying.
The first 2 actual people I talked to about it with were good friends who I grew up with and had left the organization a long time ago themselves. It was good to reconnect with them and hear their take on leaving the JW's. So that method worked out well.
The third person I talked to about it was a non JW. It was while I was part of organizing a civic volunteer group through my job. There was a Church Pastor in my group and in the course of our working together he brought up the topic of religion. I told him my leaving JW story (which involved my father dying because of the blood issue and our Son being wrongfully disfellowshipped.) Long story short, he was appalled at the way the JW's had intervened in our "salvation and personal relationship with God." He said as a Pastor it was his job to teach and assist his congregation how to live by God's word. To advise people but not be an enforcer of interpreted rules or someone who doles out punishments.
Anyway, I hope you are careful what you say to other JW's and instead find this site a helpful outlet in the process of sorting out your JW related conundrum .
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Please post new forum feedback or questions here
by Simon inwell, the switchover happened - there were a couple of things i had to fix which meant the posting was disabled for longer than i planned but it's now enabled and some people have already posted.. if you have any questions about the new format or suggestions on how to improve it, please post them here.. if you are having trouble signing in or posting then you'll need to email me instead.. many thanks to everyone for their patience during the changeover !.
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exwhyzee
Sorry if this has already been asked but why is there a number next to the message envelope? I have the number six but there are no new messages. -
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Encinitas Congregation Encinitas CA.
by exwhyzee inanyone from that hall?.
we attended a memorial for a long time friend there this past weekend.
it was my first time in a kingdom hall since memorial 2008. as per usual, the people were lovely but the message had gaps and left me feeling somewhat blank and cold.
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exwhyzee
B.O.C. Yes it is a small world sometimes especially in an insular community such as JW's
Bizzy Bee: We went to a nice luncheon an older couple had at their house (she's from Paris) and it turns out everyone there knew someone from our area. (Seattle) The same older couple even lived in our town for a time. It turned out to be a session of " do you know so and so ? " - and - " do the so and so's, still go to your hall ? "We had do be sort of evasive so as not to wind up having to go into the fact that we are not attending. LisaRose: Yes...the reality of going back, facing the boredom of the meetings and the expectation of having to go in field service (never again) is pretty off-putting. Steve2: Yes...and adults who were from abusive homes can sometimes conjur fond childhood memories. We tend to see the past through rose colored glasses. Flipper: There's no way I'd ever take any of it seriously or become indoctrinated. I'd definetly be considered as a weak one, as I would never go in service again (that would be dishonest) and I'd be very tempted to make subtle "alternative" comments in the meetings, pointing out some of the ironies of the JW logic. Thanks for the kind words and we will be in touch. We were going to give you guys a call around Thanksgiving to see what you were doing but it would have been a bit too " last minute" . Hi Dagney: Thanks...the person who died was a true friend to us even thought she didn't approve of us leaving "the truth". I considerd her the big Sister I never had and she'd introduce me to people as her Brother. She had a fall and the hospital botched the combination of pain medication they gave her and it did her in. She was an amazing artist who made her living traveling the world with ther art. I'll send you a link to her website and facebook so you can look at her work.
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Encinitas Congregation Encinitas CA.
by exwhyzee inanyone from that hall?.
we attended a memorial for a long time friend there this past weekend.
it was my first time in a kingdom hall since memorial 2008. as per usual, the people were lovely but the message had gaps and left me feeling somewhat blank and cold.
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exwhyzee
We lost a very wonderful friend to some mishandled medical treatment after an accident. Part of me knows what Steve2 and LisaRose have said is true and that this untimely death is causing me to reflect on things but I sometimes wonder if it would be better to go back and not take it all so seriously and just reap the benefits of being around people who are trying their best to be decent and good. There are less meetings now, they are shorter and the whole thing seems much more user friendly. We walked away back in 2008. It would only be a matter of easing back into a few meetings now and then.
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How do you overcome this JW excuse?
by EdenOne induring one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.
eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?
how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".
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exwhyzee
Elder - " The truth never changes. It's our perspective on The truth that may change, but The truth has always been The same".
So the Societies "perspective" of Jehovah's commandments regarding abstaing from blood has changed enough so that blood fractons are now allowable. Do you think it was Jehovah's intention to allow certain JW's to die unnecessarily while waiting for that "perspective" to change? How would you answer this question if you had a child or loved one die 10 or 15 years ago before this new "perspective" came to pass?
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Encinitas Congregation Encinitas CA.
by exwhyzee inanyone from that hall?.
we attended a memorial for a long time friend there this past weekend.
it was my first time in a kingdom hall since memorial 2008. as per usual, the people were lovely but the message had gaps and left me feeling somewhat blank and cold.
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exwhyzee
Anyone from that Hall?
We attended a memorial for a long time friend there this past weekend. It was my first time in a Kingdom Hall since Memorial 2008. As per usual, the people were lovely but the message had gaps and left me feeling somewhat blank and cold. The association afterward was easy and natural and reminded me of the way it used to be when all was well for us and JWdom. Maybe that in itself should be enough for a person ?
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Helping Grandma Move.
by exwhyzee inwe helped my wife's 83 year old mother move this weekend (30year regular pioneer).
she's having memory issues now and is moving into a nice little apartment built off the back of her (elder) son's house.
among a lifetime of memories, kids report cards, black and white photos of long dead swans etc., i found stacks of old society publications from as far back as the 1920's including bound volumes and rutherford books.
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exwhyzee
You should get as much of that old stuff you can and that brochure about old people give their money to the Borg should be copied and uploaded here.
I know... I'll have to figure out a way to scan it and upload it here without having to dismantle the brochure.
I take comfort in the fact that all of my children have awakened to TTATT and can live their lives without being enslaved to Borgland.
I have one Son (and his wife) who still attend meetings and my Brother. I don't mind that they still do, if that's what they want, so long as they know it's not the absolute truth in the world and not to make any long term plans around their predictions for the future, take any of their medical advice, or think that they need to shun the rest of us who don't believe it anymore. So far I'm pretty sure they just view it as a social outlet and a way of life that happens to be working for them at the moment.
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Helping Grandma Move.
by exwhyzee inwe helped my wife's 83 year old mother move this weekend (30year regular pioneer).
she's having memory issues now and is moving into a nice little apartment built off the back of her (elder) son's house.
among a lifetime of memories, kids report cards, black and white photos of long dead swans etc., i found stacks of old society publications from as far back as the 1920's including bound volumes and rutherford books.
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exwhyzee
We helped my Wife's 83 year old Mother move this weekend (30year Regular Pioneer). She's having memory issues now and is moving into a nice little apartment built off the back of her (elder) Son's house. Among a lifetime of memories, kids report cards, black and white photos of long dead swans etc., I found stacks of old Society publications from as far back as the 1920's including bound volumes and Rutherford Books. I also found a manuscript she typed for Albert Schroeder (G.B) for a talk he gave at the District Convention back in 1974. "Pressing Forward Toward the Prize of Everlasting Life" (P.S. he died about 8 years ago).
My Brother in Law (41year old elder) knew about the old literature since childhood but never paid any attention to it until now. As we were packing up the old books I showed him the old drawings of Jesus on the Cross or pointed out some of the crazy old beliefs. I opened the bound volumes up to some of the articles containing the failed predictions and flop flops we've discussed on this site. I casually handed them to my brother in law and had him read certain key paragraphs. I made no comments, just let the literature speak for itself except for once when I showed him how they changed the masthead of the Awake! magazine and dropped the part about the 1914 generation not passing away before this system ended. I said "It would appear they knew back in the 90's that these folks would die off long before Armageddon came and were little by little backing out of their predicition. Funny how they didn't make it official until 2 years ago when 2014 was bearing down on them and there was no way out if it. He said in a vague sort of half joking way " Yep...the light keeps getting brighter". I said in a half joking but sarcastic way "Might have been nice if they'd have let us know this "brighter light" back in the 90's so we'd have had a chance to plan our lives accordingly. A lot of people put off having children, stuck with dead end jobs, put off medical needs or didn't invest in retirement because they were told those, very elderly people would still be alive when Armegeddon came." .
He had sort of a sick far off look on his face as he read some of the stuff I was showing him and said something about donating the books to the Kingdom Hall but then one of the (M.S.) Grandsons came in and he remembered that the Society wanted certiain publications returned to them. I (gently) mentioned that I'd heard that some of this old literature is an embarrasment to them and the reason they want it back is because they are trying to get rid of it so it doesn't keep coming back to haunt them. They both looked like they could see why this would be true.
I also found a full color magazine sized booklet that was sent to her from the Society called "Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide". Has anyone else seen this ? Using Prov 3:9 as its theme " Honoring Jehovah with your valuable things" This publication outlines all the options a JW has for handing over their money, property and valuables to the Society. They also show how you can set up an annuity with the Watchtower and receive an income for life, based on ones life expectancy. It goes on to give examples (with photos) of smiling happy individuals who are participating in this program and furthering Kingdom interest and getting tax benefits because of it. Along with the brochure she had been sent some form to fill out. I didn't want to overwhelm him but when the time is right I'm going to ask my brother in law (who now manages his Mom's money) if he knew that they had sent her this information. I'm guessing he did not. (He's been having trouble with her buying unnecessary things from salesman, loaning or giving away money to family members without telling him) I know it won't sit well with him if they have already convinced her to sign anything over to them.
I kept the "Charitable Planning" brocure and can probably still get my hands on the old literature. I have bro. Shcroeder's talk and was thinking I'd scan it and make it available if anyone is interested. There's lots of bold language in it from back in the day when they were really "out there". Lots of declarative statements with no evidence presented as back up. (see below)
Incidently, last month at Bethel I was talking to some of the fine Brothers about Satan and his Demons. They [ the demons] are all spiritual drop- outs and so they have been going on the decline. But why does Jehovah God, from the Blble, have to execute Satan and the demons and doesn't allow them to go to the full limit or the point of decline? They are not physical, but their hold on life is so powerful that what possibly would be involved here is that it would take hundreds of thousands of years for them to deteriorate to the point where they'd wear out and Jehovah won't wait that long. So the angels and Satan are on death row. They have been sentenced by Jehovah as meriting execution. It's just a matter of tme before they are eliminated from the human scene forever.
This weekend was pretty emotional not only because it's very sad to see my once vibrant mother in law who firmly believed since her youth that she'd live into the new system, declining so rapidly but because it was chock- full of reminders of how deeply entrenched my life is and always will be, in the JW religion.