confliction
JoinedPosts by confliction
-
5
Seems to me a bit of a mirror...
by gubberningbody ingod creates man in his image, man imagines god to be the best version of him or her self.. does either have any possibility?.
if all our thoughts about god are limited, and i think most jw's would somberly nod their heads to that, then wouldn't it likewise be true to say that you can evaluate the contrapositive of the same and conclude that the god that made us, if the case is such is rather limited as well?.
"...what a piece of worke is a man!
-
-
-
20
News flash from JWs! Quick run for your lives! We're doomed! the end is nigh! and its all down to the oil...
by highdose ini got an email from a jw relative.
they reckon that they have read a indepth report about the us oil spill and according to that.. the oil spill is too big to be plugged.. its going to posion all the earths oceans.. which means they won't be able to produce o2.. which means that all life on earth is going to die.... which is a fullfillment of the scripture " unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved".
which means... duh duh duh!
-
-
confliction
lol @jedi
-
4
Elfquest
by JimmyPage insome of you may already be fans of this comic.
if you're unfamiliar with it, do yourself a favor and go to elfquest.com.
there you'll find every issue available to read for free on your computer.
-
-
-
4
Elfquest
by JimmyPage insome of you may already be fans of this comic.
if you're unfamiliar with it, do yourself a favor and go to elfquest.com.
there you'll find every issue available to read for free on your computer.
-
-
confliction
Don't you know that that's a tool of satan?
He'll infiltrate your mind and influence you with his satanic thoughts!
And God forbid that you become an apostate with your satan-like independent thinking !I will pray for you, brother.
-
39
@ djeggnog
by bennyk in2:16), and sanctified (john 17:19; 1 cor.
7:25; 1 john 2:1), high priest (heb.
3:29; 4:7; titus 3:6,7; heb.
-
-
confliction
Fail thread is fail.
-
64
Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance
by confliction inhello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.
i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.
a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .
-
-
confliction
@djeggnog
The Mormon might have an answer, the same as a Baptist or a Seventh-Day Adventist or a Muslim or an adherent of Judaism might have an answer. Devout or not, they are all of them, I believe, living their lives in a state of spiritual darkness.Is this an objective answer, or an opinionated answer? Have you fully learned the teachings of Latter-day saints? What about Muslims or baptists? Have you been completely through the runs to know what they're teaching is wrong? Or do you tend to only focus on their imperfections, and justify that as a means to disprove them as having divine backing? After all, they don't see themselves as being in spiritual darkness, just like you. Mormons can scripturally back up their teachings, and can also apply scriptures we use to the faithful slave and direct them at John Smith too. John smith's revelations provide them with "food at the proper time", and John Smith's interpretation of the bible sounds "credible" once you study with them.
It doesn't matter what the Mormon believes to be true; if he or she should believe Joseph Smith to have been a true prophet of God, that Smith was given some golden plates by an angel named Moroni and that Smith was given the power to translate the writing on these plates, that would be his or her "truth," but not the truth as I know the Bible to be, so he or she may well fight "tooth and nail" to defend it, but so what?
But Russell had a divine connection with God and Jesus, and over time the scriptures revealed to him the truth of the bible. After all, he said that he was God's mouthpiece, and that he was essentially given divine power to interpret the bible. The same would also apply to the Governing body today. This would no doubt be credible to you, no? And you are fighting tooth and nail right now, by continuing arguments on a website you're advised through your very own spiritual head to not even have visited, let alone partake of.
I'm 100% sure that I know the truth that has been revealed to us so far through our study of the Bible, and I do not care to force my ideas upon anyone, but to share them with those interested in hearing them. BTW, I know how to overlook zany teachings that have nothing to do with Bible truth, like I don't take Russell's pyramid seriously, but I recognize his love and zeal for God, and I also recognize that God chose to use Russell the same as He used Cyrus to obtain a release for His exiled people and used Alexander to give Tyre its comeuppance.
The fruits of objectivity do not yield absolute certainty. But I do believe you should be commended. To overlook the erroneous doctrinal reputation of an organization that claims to be (passively) divinely operated takes.... faith. What happened to your skepticism?
Don't you think Joseph Smith had love and zeal for God? Why would he write such a meticulously crafted book to teach other's his God-given restoration of biblical truth? Couldn't his experience be related to the same as Cyrus, or Alexander? Joseph's doctrinal errors couldn't possible be because he was in spiritual darkness, could it? It had to be human error. After all, he's not perfect, just as other's used by God, such as moses, but he says he was used by God to interpret the scriptures through the book of mormon, so- why not?No, an apostate is someone that had once been enlightened. For your convenience, here's a passage: Hebrews 6:4-6.So what of those who honestly feel they're rejecting an Organizational Cult, and haven't actually been enlightened?
The society deems them apostate, don't they. I'm sorry but I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked your spiritual head's opinion.
So you justify visiting this site because you feel we aren't apostate? So, I'm sure we could have this conversation over the internet
In the plain view of your elder-buddies, right? I'm sure they'll feel the same way, as well as all the bethelites and pioneers.
You don't think you're disobeying God's organization here on earth, so why not? You wouldn't get into trouble...Who was it now that sowed that field in Jesus' parable with these "33,000" weeds? Here's a hint: Matthew 13:24, 28, 39. The point I would make is that just because a doctrine might be Bible based" or "backed by Scripture" doesn't make the religion true, for clearly there is only one faith, which logically means that 32,999 of these faiths must be false.
Well, I never used the word "weeds" to describe 33,000 religions that claim to be tried and true. So the fact that a religion is solidly based on scripture and claims to be bible based means nothing to you? Interesting.
Then wouldn't they as well as these honest-hearted believers in evolution all just be fools? I mean, what excuse would they have for believing there is no God? Or maybe natural selection does explain how the very first self-replicating cell (equipped with DNA) came to exist so no real need exists for a Creator-God?Wow, I had literally laughed- you're good at jokes! first off, your comment shows a complete lack of understanding and appreciation of the sciences. The process of natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with the formation of self replicating cells. Try raising your IQ and going to college if it's all too hard for you to understand and you'd rather just use creation as an excuse. While we're on it, this creator sure does seem to have a bloodlust, doesn't he? I mean, killing 6,690,254,041 people because they didn't know better? Where's the love that he consists of? Surely if he know how the human brain functions, he would know that misunderstanding can affect a person's decision making, and that it was merely a defect, caused by imperfection, would he not? Surely he wouldn't doom someone to be destroyed in a rain of fire due to a lack of intelligence, or reasoning ability, would he? Adam and eve didn't have an excuse because they were perfect, but what about all of us now? He's going to destroy me for being a product of inferiority? I can almost feel the warmth and loving kindness your God Jehovah has for me :).
"No; these "6,690,254,041" people are going to be destroyed because God's patience ran its course and no one could ever accuse Jehovah of not extending mercy to at least some of the human family who would have been among the dead were it not for His merciful provision of the ransom. You see, not everyone is going to be saved.
Remember an ancient world perished back in 2370 BC, and all but eight people survived the destruction of that world. Maybe Noah missed some of those folks that were drowned to death for a time, but he got over it, and those mourning over the deaths of these 6,690,254,041 will eventually get over it as well. For your convenience, here's a verse: Isaiah 65:17.
Would you kill 6,690,254,041 imperfect people for being wrong?
Yes, I would, considering the fact that these "6,690,254,041 people were already dead to me. For your convenience, here's a verse: John 3:18."So God can get impatient with people? That makes it okay to kill his own creation- a manifestation of his own image and likeness? And what about Jehovah extending mercy? Don't the Mormon's believe they are providing that? And what about the other 32,999 christian faiths, including yourself? Aren't you all claiming to be nothing more than a safe haven for those who want God's mercy? Those who confess their sins and pray daily- dead to god? Just for not knowing?
As to the rest of your justification of divine genocide, I can only be appalled to think that I used to believe this. It's probably the most offensive thing I could probably say to someone.
People who were searching for the truth when the end comes- dead.
Babies of those who said "I have my own religion" at the door- dead.
So you're telling me that you would put a gun to my head right now, and because you "gave me a chance" to understand you, even though I didn't get it, you would pull the trigger?
And you call yourself and your God Jehovah loving?
Why don't we stone fornicators, cut the skin off our penises and smash our children's heads into walls while we're at it? The bible advocates it.God's message today is still what Jesus and his apostles preached, namely, the good news of the kingdom of God, except now we are preaching that God's heavenly kingdom has now been established, and that people of all nations are both learning God's righteousness and how to put up with the shortcomings of one another. Our literature contains miniature sermons that merely explain God's message to folks that are interested in understanding what things the Bible says, and it lets folks know that God's focus in these last days has been on the ingathering of the great crowd of "other sheep" as to whether they are serving God day and night in his spiritual temple.
Well I agree that the preaching work is vital, but let's not forget that preaching doesn't imply going door to door, or sharing watchtower's and awakes on the street. After all, jesus himself, as well as his disciples, used nothing but the bible. What's so wrong with it today that we must mandatorily use a publication in assistance to the bible, to interpret it (like the book of mormon)?
After all if you're not studying JW teachings without a publication, then you can't count it as a true bible study.
Doesn't every other cultic religion feel the same way? They're just separating true believers from those that are "imitation".
Yet, I understand that their seperation work is void because their religion is false from your standpoint. I guess I'll move on.
I don't believe I said that it was a bad thing for you to be skeptical of what things you believe.If I ask too many questions with the elders, I will be marked. Again, I didn't ask for what you said, I am asking what your spiritual head and advising organizaton says.
The truth set me free were all of the falsehoods, religious or otherwise, to which many of the people with whom I speak daily continue to be in bondage, but perhaps you learned after a few years of studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses that you had no real interest in the truth. I've no problem with that.
I have been born and raised as a Witness, have spoken and associated with many Bethelites, Pioneers, Missionaries, Circuit Overseers, and of course, elders. My own father is a Ministerial Servant; my mother, a pioneer. I have been a baptized brother since the age of 13, and I have pioneered and have studied watchtower literature for my entire life. Don't try playing ad-hominem attacks on me- that's a low blow, and I'm suprised you would resort to attempting character assassination as a basis for justifying your arguments.
Are the "religious falsehoods" false because you only want to see them as false, through the eyes of the Watchtower, or have you given them a real opputunity as being credible doctrine, and if so, how? Do you do the opposite process for yourself?
Who really preys on the gullibility of others?
Wicked people for the most part. Why do you ask?Why are we encouraged to take advantage of sharing the "kindom message" with people at their weakest moments in life? Isn't that what cults do? Try hard to appeal to a person's emotions... getting them at their weakest (gullible) moments helps circumvent logic, does it not?
Is it? Does skepticism have an opposite? The skeptic might be like the apostle Thomas, who wants to see a thing because he or she accepts it as being true, but gullibility cannot be skepticism's opposite, for anyone said to be gullible believes everything, even the incredible, that he or she is told is true, whereas I, for example, am more like the skeptic, questioning everything, but believe what is credible. What am I?Well I appreciate that you recognized a grey-area in logic. It is true that there can be people with a tendency to gravitate towards skepticism, and others who are more gullible. I was simply stating that these two, in a totalitarian sense, are opposites of each other, as much as white is opposite of black. You are reading too much into what I have said- excessively eager to disprove me. Now, the light has just gotten brighter on this matter concerning skepticism and gullibility. Are you keeping up with the light?
I'm usually objective, but I can be subjective at times. We're here talking about truth though, right, where subjectivity has no place. Is there a point you wish to make? If so, then please make it because, quite frankly, as I read your post here, you are coming off to me here as if I were conversing with a teenager.
And you are right. Fun fact: Josiah became king at age 8. What difference does it make to Jehovah how old I am? None.
You are going to have to ask a Mormon that question. Because I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and not a Mormon, I think you question would best be posed to someone that is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.Apparently, you either didn't recognise, or chose to ignore the insinuation and inferences I was making by using a third-person illustration.
But that doesn't matter- I'll save it for another time.
You have a wonderful day dj- I hope armageddon comes soon to kill everyone on earth so you can enjoy paradise earth- I hear it's getting closer every day. -
64
Help with irrefutable arguments- creating dissonance
by confliction inhello- i'm arguing with my parents now... well, call it debating.
i'm trying to give them a question they'll actually think about- something that will make them want to do more research.
a question (or questions), that if right, will make them reconsider whether they are in the "truth".... .
-
-
confliction
"Although I do not claim to be conversant with the teachings of every denomination or sect that calls itself "christian", I cannot name any such that do not preach God's kingdom as mankind's only hope. Can you? While it is true that as individual denominations they may not preach in as many lands as does the Watch Tower Society, in the aggregate those other denominations preach more extensively. Furthermore, the Society preaches a "different Gospel" [citation] which stands under Apostolic condemnation [citation] and therefore does not fulfill Matthew 24:14.
Yes, not one of the churches in Christendom are preaching God's kingdom as mankind's only hope. I don't feel there exists any need for me to be more specific."
| Lol... dj, I don't think you actually read what he just said here. Need some glasses?
Besides that, I noticed that you didn't provide much in the terms of scriptural backing in your arguments. I counted about, 7 scriptures. I'm sure you could find a scripture for all of them though. Just don't forget that in the bible, context is key.
Besides that, I just thought it would be appropriate at this time to examine (scapegoat) some other religions. Take for example a devout mormon. This mormon has examined his bible (with the assistance of the book of mormon) for his entire life, and has an answer to everything. He doesn't like to brag, but he likes to think of himself as a very intelligent person; smarter than your average mormon.
The important thing to this mormon is not what others think of what he believes, because they're controlled by satan. HE believes what he believes. He has had ample time to rationalize to himself the logic in what he believes, and it all makes perfect sense. You could say that this mormon, from the evidence he's gathered throughout his life (and evidence he's ignored) has the truth.
Because this mormon has the truth, he will fight tooth and nail for it, sometimes even in a rather defensive tone and demeanor. After all, the bible says to make a defense for the truth, and he is sure withought doubt that he has it. God would expect nothing less of him, right?
So, I only hope you're gleaning the similarities here. I only hope you're taking an objective view to your truth and not trying to force your ideas upon others. Are you 100% sure you have it all figured out? After all, apostates are not the people who have conflicting opinions, but those who maliciously promote them; creating followers.
Going back to the mormon, he would no doubt call Jehovah's Witnesses a false religion.
Does this mean he's rejecting God himself? After all, he's just stating what he personally feels he KNOWS is the truth.
Does this make him an apostate of God?
All I'm wanting you to realize is that there are somewhere near 33,000 christian denominations worldwide.
That's 33,000 different beliefs that are all "backed by scripture" and claim to be bible based.
Every one of those belief systems most likely has scriptures to reinforce their doctrine.
Every single person in each of those different belief systems feels they undoubtedly "have it right".
Every single person in each of those different belief systems feels they are serving the Almighty God to the best of their ability.
Every single person in each of those different belief systems feels they love the Almighty God with all of their heart.
Next, take into account those who, in an honesthearted search for "truth", have come to the conclusion that there is no God?
And what about small tribes that live in the most remote areas of the world?
Does this mean that the epitome of love, Jehovah/Yaweh, is going to destroy 6,690,254,041 people, just because their honest perspective in life didn't match up?
Would you kill 6,690,254,041 imperfect people for being wrong?
Yeah, you can argue that "only Jehovah can judge those who live and who don't", but your organization says it's dependent upon those who "accept God's message", meaning their literature.Are you telling me God doesn't want me to be skeptical?
Why is skepticism of my own belief system a bad thing?
Shouldn't the truth set me free?
Who really preys on the gullibility of others?The opposite of skepticism is gullibility.
Are you being objective or are you just trying to cite evidence to back your beliefs because you know they're the truth?
Don't forget, the mormon would do exactly the same thing.
Why else would a mormon believe those things, if he wasn't presented with "evidence" and scriptures? -
4
Regularity in meetings and study, and brainwashing.
by confliction inokay, so i was just doing some research on brainwashing and it's effects and how it's put into practice, and i thought this might be interesting to a few of you.. .
howstuffworks.com -> "how brainwashing works".
after that, i must listen to someone read from 1 kings again.
-
-
confliction
Okay, so i was just doing some research on brainwashing and it's effects and how it's put into practice, and I thought this might be interesting to a few of you.
HowStuffWorks.com -> "How Brainwashing Works"
"...While most psychologists believe that brainwashing is possible under the right conditions, some see it as improbable or at least as a less severe form of influence than the media portrays it to be. Some definitions of brainwashing require the presence of the threat of physical harm, and under these definitions most extremist cults do not practice true brainwashing since they typically do not physically abuse recruits. Other definitions rely on "nonphysical coercion and control" as an equally effective means of asserting influence. Regardless of which definition you use, many experts believe that even under ideal brainwashing conditions, the effects of the process are most often short-term -- the brainwashing victim's old identity is not in fact eradicated by the process, but instead is in hiding, and once the "new identity" stops being reinforced the person's old attitudes and beliefs will start to return..."
So, paying attention to the highlighted text, you see that brainwashing effects are short term, meaning that if you only endure a single brainwashing session, the effects will fade away rather quickly. This means that to perpetually and effectively control someone's beliefs and identity / personality, you must indefinitely continue regular brainwashing sessions. This is important, because if there is any break in that chain, the person will relatively quickly start to regain their former personality, attitudes, and identity, as well as the ability to think critically.
I know that this fits in to our meetings almost perfectly, since going to, and "paying attention" during meetings for 17 years of my life.
To effectively brainwash someone, you must undermine their ability to trust their own thinking abilities- make it easy and tell them you'll think for them. What better way to do this than to say that you aren't telling them what to do, but god is. That way, if they don't listen to you, they're denying god.
The next step is to incorporate your rules, but with REPETITION. Repetition is important here, as without it, the effects of brainwashing begin to wear off.If meetings are really supposed to be a place for "spiritual food" and biblical education, then no doubt you would be learning about the "deeper things of god", correct?
Well, all I see are a few randomly quoted and cited scriptures to back up rules and to stop personal opinion/reason at the door. I don't know about you but I feel like learning something I never really knew about the bible before, don't you?
Great.
Let's see what's in store for today's rigidly scheduled and meticulously maintained brai- I mean, meeting:Saturday, July 10
A large door that leads to activity has been opened to me.—1 Cor. 16:9.
In 1919 the glorified Jesus Christ placed “an opened door” before the anointed remnant. (Rev. 3:8) “A large door that leads to activity” is still wide open to all of Jehovah’s servants. Those passing through it find joy and satisfaction as they have a greater share in the preaching of the good news. You young servants of Jehovah, how highly do you value the incomparable privilege of helping others to “have faith in the good news”? (Mark 1:14, 15) Have you considered serving as a regular pioneer or as an auxiliary pioneer? Kingdom Hall construction, Bethel service, and the missionary field are other opportunities that may open up to many of you. Since time is running out for Satan’s wicked world, entering these avenues of Kingdom service becomes more urgent every day. Will you go through the “large door” while there is still time?
w08 5/15 4:15-17
July 5 Bible reading: 1 Kings 7-8
No. 1: 1 Kings 8:14-26
No. 2: Why Are We Warned About Becoming Wise in Our Own Eyes? (Isa. 5:21)
No. 3: When People Cast Aside the Bible Standard on Sexual Morality, Do They Really Gain Freedom? (rs p. 187 ¶5–p.188 ¶2)Alright, so, le'ts recap what spiritual enligtenment I've gained from this week's meeting. First, from the text, I've learned that the end is very near, and I must hurry and do all I can for God's organization here on earth, while there's still time, because I'm obviously not doing enough- there's very little time to think things through.
Next, we have our bible reading. I am to read 1 Kings 7-8. That is all.
After that, I must listen to someone read from 1 Kings again. Okay...
For the No. 2 Talk, I have learned that I shouldn't trust my own thinking abilities.
Finally, I learn that one great night of sex becomes... well I'll let the society tell me what happens:
"Illicit sexual relations may, at the moment, seem pleasurable. But they lead to loathsome diseases, unwanted pregnancy, abortion, jealousy, a disturbed conscience, emotional turmoil, and certainly the disapproval of God, upon whom our prospects for future life depend."So, diseases, a disturbed conscience, emotional turmoil...... so far it sounds like I boned a dog with aids... just sayin'.
Alright, so my hormonally and instinctually strong and innate desire to "do it" is all wrong, and god will hate me for it.
I get it.
Yup. I guess I didn't really learn anything new at the meeting this time... :( oh-well.
Dispense your life to the Organization.
Don't think for yourself.
If you have sex you will die.
Just the repetition of rules, repeated in the same way every week- no deviation from the arrangement allowed.
Brainwashing: http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/human-nature/perception/brainwashing.htm -
23
What is your reaction when you see dubs with name badges? Here was mine:
by SnakesInTheTower inone of the things i really like about being out of the cult is that i no longer have to go to those long, boring district conventions.
instead, i can do other things with my new family (fiancee and soon to be step son).
we were out and about sunday, i had taken the day off from work, no point in bothering people with collections on a sunday and a holiday.. we had planned to go to a suburb of st. louis, mo (st. charles) and see some of the vendors on the riverfront in the afternoon and then wait for the fireworks in the evening .
-
-
confliction
I still have to wear one :(
-
24
Deprogramming... yourself.
by confliction inso, the title pretty much explains it.. .
i've come to a pretty definite conclusion for myself as to where i stand, and how i feel about the existence of a deity- let alone the idea that wts has divine backing.. .
my issue is that, being born in, i have lots of subconsciously ingrained phobias and behaviors burned in so deep, i constantly catch myself thinking and reatcting to things the "witness" way- things that don't apply to my life or the way i (want to) live my life anymore.. for example, because of the way i've been raised and indoctrinated, i've grown a serious aversion- you could say almost a literal fear- of worldy people; girls in particular.
-
-
confliction
lol well I actually believed what I was being taught lol- Idk how to explain it. Talking to girls in the hall is fine but outside is just strange, like, what do you talk about? lol.
I was extremely sheltered by my parents the whole time- I've never really spoken with anybody outside of the hall for just social interaction, you know? So in a way, it's kind of like, talking to a pirate or something. You've never really just shot the breeze with a pirate lol- so what do you do when you find yourself hanging out with one?
Alright, I'm sure the pirate example just completely destroyed the point I'm trying to make- ignore that lol... I guess it's that I see worldy girls with preconceived ideas of how they are and what they're supposed to be like, and all those preconceived ideas (from parents, elders, and the like) are all wrong, but it's stuck in my head and interferes everytime I try to just chill out and talk like a normal person.Idk, maybe I'm just a really effed up melon from the patch... lol.
