respectful_observer

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Posts by respectful_observer

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  51

  Has there, or are there any normal pro-WT members on this forum? As in mentally stable, anybody?

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first off, forgive me if i'm guilty of being judgemental.

  i got my own fair share of mental problems.

  it goes without saying that a bunch of us on this forum are misfits and freaks.

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  respectful_observer

  Hmmm...I would consider myself normal, credible, and mentally stable. I'm educated, professionally employed, well-liked, and socially involved with the JWs that I know.

  I am an active JW and don't consider myself "on the way out" in any sense of the word. Do I think that everything and everyone is perfect in the organization? No. Do I think that there are plenty of crazy people in it that follow it in cult-like fashion? Yes. Do I think everyone in it is like that? No.

  I would agree that anyone who comes here to be actively "pro JW" may be a bit touched in the head, since most others arrive here precisely because they are unhappy with some aspect of "the Org". What good does it come here to debate someone who has such a fundamentally opposite viewpoint on this religion? It seems too often to disolve into personal attacks and name-calling.

  I simply find it interesting to see the different perspectives represented on this board-- call it intellectual curiousity.
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  25

  Is the WT going to move on this leak?

  by wheelwithinwheel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm sure the legal, public relations and other depts.

  are all asking the gb how to handle this situation.

  and i'm convinced the gb is scratching it's head trying to decipher j's spirit direction in all of this.

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  respectful_observer

  Personally I'd be surprised if any news organization would have interest in this. I could be wrong, but something that affects 0.5% of the population usually doesn't make for awfully compelling news.

  I imagine that the WTS will still continue its efforts to remove it from file-sharing sites, but that's about it. Perhaps a reminder letter to each CoBE, and maybe a stern reminder during the CO visit and the elders' meeting at the SAD/CA, but nothing else.

  For the WTS, it only becomes a big deal if they start treating it like one. The more action they take-- or the more they say-- the more it will take on "urban legend" status in the organization. It's in their interests to simply downplay the importance of it to everyone.
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  35

  What is "Brazen" conduct according to new 'Shepherd the Flock of God' book

  by TastingFreedom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is brazen conduct according to the watchtower?.

  here are some references from the new flock book:.

  they have really pushed the envelope to bundle a bunch of things into one really evil word.

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  respectful_observer

  "Consider other examples: ....there is strong circumstantial evidence and there may be elements of brazen conduct. The innocent mate's conscience may allow [him or] her to choose to divorce and remarry; the elders would not take action against [him or] her for making this decision."

  Wow... this is a change (I know first-hand it's gone back and forth over the decades). Oh, how my life would have been different. What a difference just a couple of years makes.

  Reading this probably just ruined my day.
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  21

  Joel P. Engardio's article on JWs (Washington Post)

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovah's witnesses: a model for church and state begin blogger thumbs end blogger thumbs by joel p. engardio.

  if i'm ever allowed to legally marry, my mother won't attend my wedding.. i'm a gay man and my mom is one of jehovah's witnesses.

  to remain true to her faith, she can't in good conscience be part of a same-sex marriage celebration.

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  respectful_observer

  I personally find it fascinating to read Mr. Engardio's perspective in the Post, or occassionally hear on NPR. I suspect that he hasn't personally endured many of the trials of so many on this site, but I think he exemplifies what respectful and intelligent debate should be. He understands that very few people on either side of this arguement will completely agree with him, but it seems that one of his continuous messages is that just because people may have fundamentally different core beliefs, we can still show genuine respect to one another. Anyone who espouses that gains my attention and respect-- if only because it's too rare in society today.

  I hope that others follow his example and realize that someone who is willing to highlight the positive aspects of a movement that they don't personally support doesn't hurt them; it makes them a stronger, more understanding person.
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  66

  KS10 Chapter Two Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing onward into chapter two (as directed by the boe ltr dated aug 23, 2010) of "shepherding the flock of god" a publication by the non profit organizatin known as the wts of penn & ny as part of their for donation only bible educational work.. for those of interested in chapter one discussion please see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

  chapter two discusses the various titles within the boe.. subtitles are:.

  2) elder's meetings.

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  respectful_observer

  M_J_N_M... you highlight an interesting point that I'm sure many may agree with.
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  66

  KS10 Chapter Two Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing onward into chapter two (as directed by the boe ltr dated aug 23, 2010) of "shepherding the flock of god" a publication by the non profit organizatin known as the wts of penn & ny as part of their for donation only bible educational work.. for those of interested in chapter one discussion please see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

  chapter two discusses the various titles within the boe.. subtitles are:.

  2) elder's meetings.

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  respectful_observer

  Yknot, your commitment to making organizational/judicial structure as "open source" as possible reminds me of how egalitarian the first-century congregation was (I can only imagine). Far from the clergy/laity separation ("special knowlege") that's so openly embraced in most faiths.

  Since I can't access the file-sharing sites at work, I haven't seen them. That being said, from reading the old book, there likely aren't very many "secrets" in this new one. It was true with the old one that most material could be found elsewhere in "public" literature. I can understand the desire to consolidate this information into one easy-to-reference book for the elders, but why this type of extreme secrecy and control? It just unnecessarily leads to exactly what is going on here and provides ample ammunition to anyone that argues that there is a clergy/laity separation.

  Plus, for those going through the judicial process, knowing that only the elders have this "secret" book, encourages them to feel that the deck is already stacked against them-- that they're being judged against a set of rules that they don't even have access to. Just my two cents...
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  29

  2010 partakers.... lets bet!

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lets see who gets closer to the number.

  bets will end when the new yearbook is ready (when is that?).

  i say 11000.

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  respectful_observer

  I don't remember seeing any published explanation when they stopped publishing the monthly Service Report specifics in the KMs (unless I missed it). I would expect a similar approach with this.
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  29

  2010 partakers.... lets bet!

  by cyberjesus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lets see who gets closer to the number.

  bets will end when the new yearbook is ready (when is that?).

  i say 11000.

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  respectful_observer

  ....I'd say there is a 75% chance they pull the plug on the number this year...

  I'm leading a little more toward 50/50 myself! But if they do publish it this year, it will be one of the last times. They either won't offer any published explanantion, or they'll address it word-of-mouth through DO/CO's-- that because none of us can judge the validity of another's partaking, publishing the number really only encourages needless (and potentially harmful) speculation.
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  11

  More AGM News-- Spiritual matters continue!

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i always find it interesting how emails vary in perception.

  two more 'snippets' have arrived and i am posting them for forum consumption (this is still technically 'spiritual food') and discussion.

  as with the last thread, the original author and those they emailed are not responsible!

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  respectful_observer

  Some of the snares that will continue as the GT nears are leading many of of the 'TRUTH'. Talk (older ones) of regretting not pursuing higher education, career or not saving toward retirement. Those who whisper these 'woes' are likened to those murmurers of Israel during the Exodus from Egypt!

  Wait, so they're saying that the snares of the GT will be in part self-induced through our own poor planning and life choices??

  THAT'S why I contribute to my 401k. If "the end" happens to come in my lifetime, let's face it, worrying about what happens to my 401k is far down the list. It's JUST MONEY!!
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  88

  a reasonable question to any elder/members

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the question is this;.

  because you are members of this apostate site, yet are still willing to serve the wt soc as elders,.

  do you still hope to .

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  respectful_observer

  YNot, I think your 3 points are right on the money. I would suggest a 4th: The elder/MS feels that by remaining in his position for the time being, he is less harm than good-- good for his emotional well-being, good for his current family situation, good through his "awaked reasonableness" as an elder/MS to others in the congregation who may not be able to find such reasonableness from others.

  My personal belief is that someone who continues to serve as an elder or MS, while viewing or contributing to this site, does so because it is what is best for their own personal/family situation and/or emotional well-being at this point in their lives. I don't see it as having to choose from "two entirely opposite paths"; I think they are making their own path, which I think is usually the best path for that person.

  How often do we read of experiences on this site where lives are made tragically miserable because the wills and agendas of others (congregation, family, WTBS, etc.) have superceded what we feel is best for us personally? So many people are drawn to this site specifically because it's okay to be who you are at this momement (no matter where your are in your life journey)-- it doesn't matter if you're an active JW, DF'd, DA'd, "fading"-- you can come here and discuss your doubts, fears, hopes, and speculations, in a safe, consequence-free environment.

  To criticize others' personal decisions about what's best for their own lives reminds me of so many of the horror stories we read time and again on this site. So if one person has already choosen not recognize the authority of the WTBS over his or her conscience, it might be interpreted by some as hypocritcal for that person to then demand that others subject themselves to it by stepping away from being an elder/MS.