respectful_observer

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Posts by respectful_observer

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  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  DoC,

  You have a PM
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  38

  Did you have higher ed when you were in? If so how were you treated as a result?

  by highdose in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to both collage and uni when i was a jw, i got marked and shunned as a result.

  it seemed like every week there would be some dig made from the platform about " those that chose higher education" , my so called "freinds" were constandly on at me " why don't you pioneer highdose?!!".

  i even had the ciruit overseer denounce me from the platform as being "spirtualy weak" never mind that most of the peers i grew up with had got themselves reproved or disfellowed and that i was the only who had been good!.

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  respectful_observer

  I, and all my siblings, eared our 4-year degrees. Fortunately, most of my peers were able to do the same in our congregation-- including most of the elders' kids (our family included) without any real trouble from others.

  To the best of my knowlege, all (including myself) are still "in" and most are "core" members of the congregations they now attend. Some have even gone back and are currently working on advanced degrees (even while they serve as MS's or elders).
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  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  respectful_observer

  DPL,

  I had to laugh at your “side note”. I’ve always found it remarkable how people love to introduce themselves or others with their “spiritual resume”:

  “Hi, I’m R_O, nice to meet you. Where are you from?”

  “I’m Br/Sr. Spiritual. I’m a Pioneer in the Metropolis South Congregation.”

  It drives my friends and me bananas when people do that. What makes it all the more ridiculous is that it’s often Pioneers that end up in the most scandalous situations. (“…and they were a FULL TIME PIONEER the whole time!! Can you believe it??” … “Why, yes. Yes I can.”)

  “Pioneer”….the only title in the entire organization that allows you to do exactly the same thing that anyone else in the congregation can do if they want.

  R_O
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  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  respectful_observer

  Cantleave, I can imagine the words now: "Brothers, you have these privileges in the congregation because you at one time were seen as 'taking the lead' in many things-- including the ministry. Really then, you should think seriously whether you still meet these qualifications if you cannot 'buy out the time' to pioneer even once during the year. If you cannot 'buy out' even 30 hours during the 'Special Activity' of the Memorial season, can you still be viewed by the congregation as 'taking the lead'? If not, it may be worth considering whether you are continuing to meet the qualifications needed for your responsibilities."

  This is exactly what prompted my earlier comment about someday making this an implicit/explicit requirement to continue serving as an MS/Elder.
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  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  respectful_observer

  Pirata, your response was well-put: "...I quoted the scripture in the letter and said that I will do as I have resolved in my heart, not under compulsion."

  I was actually surprised that no one really talked about the letter in conversations after that meeting, or since-- which is strange since reading it was how they ended the meeting. I have yet to hear a single person mention it. I keep waiting for someone to excitedly ask what I thought, or whether I plan on signing up...but alas, not a single soul has.

  My guess is that they're floating it as a trial balloon of sorts.

  - First, they'll repeat it for the 2012 "Memorial Season" since 2011 turned out to be such a huge success!

  - Eventually it will be offered as a "Auxillary Pioneer-lite" to those who serve as MS's and elders...that way they can "take the lead" by "pioneering" as well. Finally, that will morph into an explicit (or implicit) requirement for those who wish to serve. Perhaps the FDS will allow the MS/Elders to count talks and shepherding calls toward the 30 hours (similar to how pioneers are allowed to count RBC hours as "field service time").

  R_O

  P.S. And of course it's no accident that everyone will spend this "Memorial Season" focusing all their time distributing Memorial invitations. It's a great way to get a ton of publishers to spend 30+ hours passing out invites ("Hey, this pioneering thing is EASY!"). The hoped-for result? A huge spike in Memorial attendance and a further indication of his blessing of our work.
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  30

  BOE LTR PDF Nov 17- Notation made to ks10

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (( hardcopy link of boe ltr pdf : http://www.sendspace.com/file/1gncdo ))... in my best 'theocratic' voice trying to mimic a service meeting conductor (giggles) ..."if you have acrobat you can insert this behind the other boes in the ks10 pdf, or if not consider downloading and keeping it in the same file as your ks10 for future need to know..... i chose to 'highlight' what i thought might be of interest to the forum in the below transcript but of course it is not limited!.

  to all bodies of elders.

  re: letters of introduction.

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  respectful_observer

  Two things stand out to me in this letter:

  1. "Clearly state...the names of any immediate family members." So even if someone is attempting to "fade", they maintain the ability to track you down through your immediate family.

  2. "If the person was reproved in the distant past but is not presently under restrictions, there may be no need to mention past judicial action unless the offense involved...adulterous marriage." I can appreciate notice when actions involving children are involved, but if any other matter "from the distant past" is truely resolved and "forgiven", why continue to keep this sin at the forefront--in the person's INTRODUCTION? "Hello, I'd like to introduce Br. /Sr. In-good-standing. S/he had an adulterous marriage in the distant past! Please welcome him/her warmly to your congregation!"
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  12

  An Elder That Helped Me

  by dontplaceliterature in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  has anyone in this forum ever had an elder in the organization discuss "apostate" teachings with them in a non-threatening, mutually enlightening way?

  obviously, there are many of you who have talked with elders about "apostate" ideas, and have been disfellowshipped/disciplined for it.

  that's not really what i'm interested in hearing about in this thread, no offense.

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  respectful_observer

  @DPL

  It does appear as though we are both from liberal areas. For what it's worth, even the congregations I've spent time with in other countries are very similar to what I've experienced my whole life. I suspect that's because they've typically been either metro-center congregations or areas where there is a high density of colleges/universities.

  I've heard the stories of "white-shirt-only" congregations, but thankfully have never experienced one first-hand. I do feel for those that have only experienced ultra-conservative congregations. Understandably it makes for a completely different experience.

  R_O
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  12

  An Elder That Helped Me

  by dontplaceliterature in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  has anyone in this forum ever had an elder in the organization discuss "apostate" teachings with them in a non-threatening, mutually enlightening way?

  obviously, there are many of you who have talked with elders about "apostate" ideas, and have been disfellowshipped/disciplined for it.

  that's not really what i'm interested in hearing about in this thread, no offense.

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  respectful_observer

  DPL,

  Yes, I can think of several individuals. One is a close friend with whom I'll sometimes end up in very deep discussion with regarding the organizational and/or scriptural reasoning behind congregation decisions. Although I count him as a close friend, I understand the position he still is required to fill and an Elder-- therefore I tend to frame my discussions around hypothethicals where I change the facts and circumstances but make sure the fundamental principles match up as much as possible. He's more than willing to discuss "hypotheticals" knowing full-well how they relate back to the real matter at hand.

  A second elder I know is an older man who has been a JW for 40+ years. He is used heavily at the circuit and district level, but he freely admits to often writing letters to the branch questioning certain core teachings. He shared with me point-blank that there may better explanations for one of our most central doctrines and what he thought it more likely should be.

  A third elder I know very well has openly challenged the reasoning behind the blood issue-- to me, his extended family, even to Bethalites. Again, he's well-used at the circuit and district level, but does not hesitate to verbally test out the strengths and weaknesses of the organization's current stance on the issue.

  R_O
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  85

  Introduction

  by dontplaceliterature in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  before i begin my introductory post, i would like to mention that a number of my initial comments here may be viewed by several of you as watchtower apologist or as sympathetic to the views of the jehovahs witnesses.

  the last thing i want to do is incite a flame war regarding my legitimacy or intentions in joining this forum.

  mostly, i would describe myself as on the fence.

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  respectful_observer

  DPL,

  It appears as though you and I share similar educational backgrounds, as well as very similar circumstances at present.

  I appreciate you sharing your circumstances and thoughts so thoughtfully. It’s always refreshing to see that others are in a similar place, and it's always refreshing to see a similar approach to respectful, open dialogue.

  Thanks,

  R_O
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  6

  Canadian top model a JW?

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i read somewhere that this top model is a witness:.

  http://www.coco-rocha.com/.

  anybody can confirm?.

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  respectful_observer

  She was raised a JW and still is. Lives in NYC and just married a brother, James Conran (born in the UK, but raised mostly in Michigan) this past year. They attend a hall on the Upper East Side.