Several years ago, CBC produced an excellent documentary called "Children of Jehovah." Maybe we can tell them how impressed we were with that program and encourage them to follow up with the issue of pedophiles.
jukief
JoinedPosts by jukief
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Canada and Child Abuse - Need a Program There
by Gedanken indateline was aired in the us, panorama in the uk - the missing link seems to be canada.
a segment on as it happens, which is broadcast in much of the us would be terrific.
any thoughts on how to accomplish this?.
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The end of Watchtower Observer?
by Wendy ini was so saddened yesterday when i read this post by kent.
http://kent.steinhaug.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=603.
there is so much information on wo that have helped thousands of people.
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jukief
I've known Kent for a long time (back before the Web began, when we were limited to email and posting on Usenet News) and I know how much time he's given to this cause. I also know how patient and understanding May Britt has been (she's much better at this than I am--I complain a lot, and publicly sometimes). I'm really glad to see that Kent is finally getting back to the business of living. It's long overdue, in my opinion, and Kent and I have had several discussions about this very thing.
Just because Kent is "retiring" doesn't mean that the information on his Web site needs to be lost. A lot of people have come out of the organization in the past few years. Why can't some of these folks take up the slack? The older-timers, people like Kent and Randy, have devoted YEARS to this. At one time, I know Alan felt obligated to continue because there just weren't that many ex-JWs out there. But that's no longer the case. There are so many very competent ex-JWs now who can take some of the pressure off the old-timers (and many of them are doing so). I was so pleased to see how many people came forward when Alan asked for help with a project recently. It's nice to know that others who have benefited from all the hard work people like Kent have done are willing to invest some of their own time and effort.
Kudos to Kent and all those who are willing to give of their time to help others. Simon, that surely includes YOU!
Julie
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Excellent POV film on PBS last night
by jukief ini watched a very interesting and touching program on pbs last night (tuesday).
it portrayed a mormon family, the smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances.
the husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting aids and bringing it home to his wife.
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jukief
Hi Susan.
You're right; most of us ex-JWs don't understand how the Mormon church works. I was just commenting on how he talked about his grief over his loss--he wasn't able to participate in the church (he said just sitting in the pew wasn't enough for him). What I thought was awful was that he felt forced to lie to his bishop about being "cured" of his sexual orientation--something almost everyone agrees is impossible. That lie just caused him more guilt and pain. He lost his faith in the church at the end (but not his faith in god). On the other hand, the Mormons were much more tolerant than JWs would *ever* be. His family was accepted and supported, and because of the last-minute decision not to excommunicate him, he was able to speak at the going-away services for his son (who left on a mission three weeks before his father died).
As for shunning, I don't agree. I had a good friend who was Mormon and lived in a small town in Utah. She "fell away" (I'm using JW speak here). That is, she just stopped going to temple. The result? She was shunned by the whole town. None of the Mormon children in the town would play with her sons. The shunning was so bad that she moved away, to Colorado, where I met her in the mid-80s. Her experience with the LDS church mirrored my own with the JWs. I, too, "fell away." (I was never DFed or DAed.) Several of my immediate family members shun me. So many rumors (all untrue) have circulated about me (the latest is that I'm physically violent when the JWs come to my door LOL) that many of the JWs in my hometown are wary and scared of me. So I think, in this respect, the Mormons are very much like the JWs. Maybe they don't atively shun people who are disfellowshipped, but they certainly do shun people when it suits them.
I can certainly understand that the church would feel he needed discipline for his infidelity, but to punish him because of his sexual orientation (something over which he had no control) is very unloving, in my opinion. No one should be forced to lie about who he/she is. I know of several gay JWs who have lived a lie their entire lives. Both are absolutely miserable. I can understand that the JWs would force them to remain celebate, but they should be able to openly acknowledge thier homosexuality without fear of condemnation.
Amazing, I'm glad you were able to overcome your feelings toward homosexuals. I've had a number of gay friends, and after seeing the pain they've gone through, I strongly believe that being gay is NOT a choice and that no one would ever willingly choose such a difficult path (especially a JW!). I'm not pro-gay, I just think gay people are like anyone else and should be treated accordingly. I, too, am an avowed heterosexual, much to Alan's relief. :-)))
Waiting, I mostly agree with you. His own actions certainly resulted in his contracting AIDS and dying, but I don't think he's responsible for being gay. That was NOT his choice. He tried very hard NOT to be gay. And the church is guilty of not allowing him to be openly gay in the first place and forcing him to try to live a life as a heterosexual. (Mormons get married young like JWs do and are encouraged to have as many children as possible; imagine the pressure that would put on a gay man.) That's tragic for the wife. I can't imagine being in that position. His wife is truly an amazing person. Not only did she forgive her husband for his infidelity and for giving her a terminal disease, but she continued to love him and took care of him until he died. Not many people could be that forgiving or show that much love.
Julie
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Excellent POV film on PBS last night
by jukief ini watched a very interesting and touching program on pbs last night (tuesday).
it portrayed a mormon family, the smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances.
the husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting aids and bringing it home to his wife.
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jukief
I watched a very interesting and touching program on PBS last night (Tuesday). It portrayed a Mormon family, the Smiths, as they dealt with some very devastating circumstances. The husband was a closeted gay for many years who ended up getting AIDS and bringing it home to his wife. The wife decided to forgive him and stay with him as he died. It was a heartwrenching documentary; I cried through the whole thing.
What especially interested me about the film was the aspect of how the Mormon church dealt with Steve Smith's homosexuality. He was "disciplined" several times because he could not honestly say he wasn't gay. He had to go through the JW-like judicial hearings and admit his sins, show repentence and ask for forgiveness. At the end he had to lie to his bishop and tell him that he no longer considered himself gay, just so he wouldn't get excommunicated and would be able to participate in the church. It was painful to see what the loss of this man's faith and the way his church abadoned him made his guilt and pain much worse. The youngest son expressed his anger at the church for the way it treated his father.
In the end, it was a remarkable essay on the love and forgiveness this family was able to show. I admire the family for the way they handled the difficult situation (they even marched in a Gay Pride parade--in SLC, no less). I wonder how many JW families could show as much love and tolerance. The greatest tragedy is how these churches--the JWs and Mormons among them--force people to live false lives. I had a discussion with several people about this on the POV discussion board. They couldn't understand how any of this could be the Mormon Church's fault, but if the church wasn't so intolerant, this man wouldn't have tried so hard to deny what he was and the story could have turned out quite different. (Of course, these people don't know what it's like to be raised in a religion that brainwashes you the way the dubs and Mormons do. They made some rather stupid statements about how if he didn't agree with the church's teachings he shouldn't have been a Mormon in the first place--like he had a choice.) It's too bad that religion, which is supposed to be all about love, can be so unloving to those who don't fit the mold.
PBS will surely air the program again. If you didn't get to see it this time, I highly recommend you try to catch it when it airs again.
Julie
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my brother the circuit overseer
by GeddyLee inhi everyone, third generation dubber here who had enough sense to leave eight years ago, after utterly wasting thirty years of my life.
i ve faced everything most of you all have,(loss of family and life long friends, and hardships trying to learn how to relate to the world around us) but now i am now enjoying all the best that life has to offer.
just wanted to relate my first hand experiance of how loyalty to the crotchtower is put above everything else even blood.
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jukief
Heck, no, Devon. If he were a Rush fan, he'd have called himself Neil Pert. :-)
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"The Truth" simplified, Gary Busselman
by Celia insomeone was asking for a copy of a watchtower from january 1, 1989.. so i went looking in a suitcase full of thes magazines.
i have one from 1989, but it is october.
most of the mags i have are 1998, 1999 and 2000.. anyway, as i was going through the stuff in that suitcase, i found a copy of an article i printed from the net, when i was writing a paper for a class in college.... it's called, the truth as i see it, or "the truth simplified" by gary busselman.
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jukief
Gary!!
Long time, no see. Do you still spend a lot of time on the bike? Did you know Doc Bob is a biker now, too? :-) I think I told you this once before, but if you come through Colorado on one of your ramblings, please stop to see us.
Jim, I don't think I've ever met you, but I think you've known Alan for a long time. I've certainly heard your name for many years. Yes, I was there back in the early 90s, too, in the days of trm. Ah, the good old days. :-)
Nice to see both of you.
Julie Feuerbacher
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NEW JW POLICY POSTED!!!
by amac ini don't know if anyone has posted on this already but there is a new press release at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm that defines the current jw policy and i believe it has taken a step in the right direction!.
although they have not literally changed it to require reporting to the authorities in all states, they have finally put into print the following: "additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.".
i am glad to see, straight from the wt, acknowledgement that the adults involved have every right to go to the police.
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jukief
A few points of clarification:
Until last autumn's Kingdom Ministry Schools for elders, the Society had no explicit policy allowing molestation victims or their guardians to go to authorities. Nor did they have, to my knowledge, any explicit, written policy not to allow such reporting. Rather, it has been a spotty but often applied unwritten policy that reporting is not allowed, based on the scriptural injunction not to take one's brother to court. Bill Bowen has on his website and in his files many cases where a person was told not to report based on this principle of not taking a brother to court. I believe it was invoked in the Erica Rodriguez (Garza) case, when elders forbid Erica to report her molestation and threatened disfellowshipping if she did.
At the recent KM schools there were explicit statements made (check the downloadable material on Kent Steinhaug's website) to the effect that no congregational sanctions should be applied to anyone who in good faith reports molestation to the authorities. This was reiterated in the 15-May-2002 letter to bodies of elders in the U.S.
Now think about this: if there were no policy (especially unwritten) to impose sanctions on someone for reporting prior to the KM schools, then it would be pointless to emphasize that elders impose no sanctions on someone for doing what U.S. law says is everyone's right, and often obligation -- to report crimes against oneself or one's family to authorities. Therefore the Society's need to explicitly instruct elders not to impose sanctions for excercising their government-given rights is proof that a policy to impose sanctions existed until last fall -- even though this policy was unwritten.
This kind of unwritten policy, reversed by an explicit statement to elders, has been demonstrated before, with respect to the Society's 1967 ban on organ transplants. People were disfellowshipped for violating that ban, even though there is not a single statement in publicly available Watchtower literature that states that getting a transplant was a DF'ing offense. Clearly, the DF'ing policy was communicated through private letters to bodies of elders, or perhaps orally through Circuit Overseers, as is often done. Nevertheless, in the March 15, 1980 Watchtower, a "Questions from Readers" article answered the question, "Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a human organ transplant, such as of a cornea or a kidney?" The answer stated a new policy: it was now to be "a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah's Witnesses." It concluded with this: "The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted an organ transplant."
This "oral law" is far more important in Watchtowerland than written law. It is used to hide policies and teachings that would result in government sanctions against the Society if they were stated outright. For example, in 1989 elders were told by the Society, in so many words, to destroy congregation records if authorities demanded them. This was not done by any written means, or even by an explicit statement. It was done by the following trickery: The speaker asked a question like, "What should elders do if authorities demand congregational records?" Typically an elder would give an unacceptable answer like, "comply with the government's demand" or "why don't you tell us?" The speaker would then repeat his question until an elder gave the correct answer: "We should not give any records to the authorities." At that point the speaker would say, "I did not say that", and then he would quit repeating the question. Most elders got the message.
We ex-JWs know how good the Society is at this business of "saying without saying", don't we? They use it in printed publications and in their news media statements. It's really a form of lying, which again we all know the Society is amazingly good at.
Given these facts, it's distressing that otherwise bright people cannot see the Society's manipulation in its statements about imposing no sanctions on those who report molestation. Come on people! Get with the program!
AlanF
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The "Troof" about Alan F. Secrets Out
by noidea inhe is a "babe magnet" .
yes, those that met me over the weekend at the silentlambs vigil know that in person i am a shy and reserved type.
when it came to picture taking time..who could resist.
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jukief
OK, folks, I promised some baby pictures, so here goes. Alan was a babe magnet even then. In fact, he started perfecting his kissing technique at an early age.
For instance, here's Alan's first kiss:
Not bad, but just see how his technique has improved in this picture. Notice the tilted head and the closed eyes:
Yes, he's kissed lots of women in his day, but this is his current (and only--sorry, girls, eat your hearts out) kissing partner:
And, for those of you who remember the "head up the ass" photo that Alan likes to post, you might not realize it really is Alan in that photo. Here's proof; he started trying it as a baby and perfected the technique by the time he was a teenager:
Now is that an adorable baby or what???? No wonder he grew up to be so darned cute.
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The "Troof" about Alan F. Secrets Out
by noidea inhe is a "babe magnet" .
yes, those that met me over the weekend at the silentlambs vigil know that in person i am a shy and reserved type.
when it came to picture taking time..who could resist.
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jukief
Actually, noidea, Alan was the most adorable baby anyone has ever seen. I'll hunt up a few pictures and scan them.
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The "Troof" about Alan F. Secrets Out
by noidea inhe is a "babe magnet" .
yes, those that met me over the weekend at the silentlambs vigil know that in person i am a shy and reserved type.
when it came to picture taking time..who could resist.
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jukief
Dave at a loss for words? Mark this day down in history.
Speaking of babe magnets, how many of you have seen our own dear Dave in person? Wowzie. I'm going to see him next month, and I'm letting Alan know right now, the first place *I'm* heading when we get to Portland is for Dave's lap!
Watch out, Dave. Here I come!