Posts by Julie

39

'Lost' redux

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

being lost...is of course, the usual state of things here.

what's surprising is that they (the lost) think that pulling scriptures out of context, isolating mosaic laws mean't for one purpose and one time, is somehow refuting scripture.. they like to ignore the fact that jesus is the revealed yahweh and he sets the mark, not any organisation nor any pious individual.

we relate scripture to him and we interpret scripture by his life amongst mankind.

Julie

Rex--

I see you merely re-posted your blather over here. Well I thought I would repeat my answer to your repeated drivel. It's ugly but sincere:

Ah the reclusive sage surfaces--
Let us inspect the pearls of wisdom he has cast before us:

:Atheists and athettes, always trumpet their superior 'intellect and ethics'

Funny Rex--you *never* refute anything I answer you with. Never. Does credibility mean anything to you Rex? Do you realize the way *not* to obtain it is emotional rants like this one (and the thousand that came before this one)?

:while supporting things like abortion (baby murder),

I am not big on name calling but it applies here-- you are the biggest hypocrite on this board. You can cut and paste reems of information excusing wholesale slaughter by your venegeful, petty biblegod but if someone doesn't bring a child into the world that maybe they cannot support/take care of, they are murderers. As long as you are ok with wholesale slaughter you have no right to speak on the topic of abortion. Unless you enjoy wallowing in your filthy hypocrisy. The same holds true for all those right-to-lifers. Few of those people give a rip what happens to the child after the womb. I consider myself a proponant of Right-to-a-Decent-life.

:the holy right to spread STDs like AIDS and hepatitus (of several types) just for their own selfish, destructive lifestyles, the rights of criminals over the rights of victims and the list goes on and on.

Yeah, there's no believers who practice unprotected, illicit sex, are there? Not one bible-thumping believer out there with an STD, eh? Spare us your dramatic blather you lunatic.

:They insist on the right to live without God, then, when things blow up and fall apart around them they blame God for their own free will choices!

How can we blame something we don't believe in? We don't insist on our right to not believe in God (we don't have to since you don't make the laws Mr. Taliban-wannabee), we merely insist you and folks like you prove/back up your ridiculous assertions. You've yet to do that Rex, how about now?

:What a galling bit of arrogance and hypocrisy!

You should quit looking in the mirror Rex.

:Guess what, America (and maybe Europe) are waking up to the lies of the liberal/no God agenda and that agenda is now becoming politically incorrect!

Taking responsibility for our own actions is becoming incorrect? Where do you get your info? The day we let lunatics like you into the secular system will never come.

:People are seriously rethinking their lives and the road they are traveling is being recognized as quicksand.

Yes, Rex, people are waking up to the fact that they have been worshipping a homicidal maniac all their lives who is, in reality, a myth created to keep people in line with fear. It is a rude awakening at first but watching fanatics like you rant serves to confirm all that many learn about and dislike when they read the bible.

:This is like 'shooting fish in a barrel'!

I imagine shooting yourself in the foot (as you do all the time) would indeed be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. I guess as long as you enjoy--it have at it. Enjoy!

Thanks for helping me to share the Happy News of biblegod!!

Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Hi Siegswife--

:I don't have anything against atheist, except that some of those here seem to think that they can judge and ridicule the faith that others may have. I think it's ludicrous for anyone to judge God and those who believe in Him, and then can't offer any basis for their judgement. It really comes down to 'I don't believe it's true' or 'I don't think it's right' or 'you should read this book'. Of course your judgment of the situation is based on what you think or what you believe or what you read. So is mine. Tell me something I don't know.

I agree with the "believe what you like and I'll believe what I like" attitude 100%. I do not believe that you *are* one of the self-righteous, I-am-so-much-better-than-unbelievers people.

I have no desire to make you explain your beliefs and you should only feel compelled to do so if you make a bold assertion and are asked to back it up.

There are others, you probably noticed, who do not share your live-and-let-live attitude. Those are dangerous people and must be exposed for the lunatics that they are (granted some need little help to expose their lunacy). I'll bet there are some folks in Islam that wish certain lunatics of their faith had been squelched too. I would like to think any Christian would be offended by Rex and others who present a very ugly, negative face to the world representing Christianity.

An attitude such as Rex's is the sort that causes nothing but misery in the world. Perhaps you may try to influence him into considering a more moderate (read "rational") mind set.

I regard our right to believe as we please to be sacred--
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Ah the reclusive sage surfaces--

Let us inspect the pearls of wisdom he has cast before us:

:Atheists and athettes, always trumpet their superior 'intellect and ethics'

Funny Rex--you *never* refute anything I answer you with. Never. Does credibility mean anything to you Rex? Do you realize the way *not* to obtain it is emotional rants like this one (and the thousand that came before this one)?

:while supporting things like abortion (baby murder),

I am not big on name calling but it applies here-- you are the biggest hypocrite on this board. You can cut and paste reems of information excusing wholesale slaughter by your venegeful, petty biblegod but if someone doesn't bring a child into the world that maybe they cannot support/take care of, they are murderers. As long as you are ok with wholesale slaughter you have no right to speak on the topic of abortion. Unless you enjoy wallowing in your filthy hypocrisy. The same holds true for all those right-to-lifers. Few of those people give a rip what happens to the child after the womb. I consider myself a proponant of Right-to-a-Decent-life.

:the holy right to spread STDs like AIDS and hepatitus (of several types) just for their own selfish, destructive lifestyles, the rights of criminals over the rights of victims and the list goes on and on.

Yeah, there's no believers who practice unprotected, illicit sex, are there? Not one bible-thumping believer out there with an STD, eh? Spare your dramatic blather you lunatic.

:They insist on the right to live without God, then, when things blow up and fall apart around them they blame God for their own free will choices!

How can we blame something we don't believe in? We don't insist on our right to not believe in God (we don't have to since you don't make the laws Mr. Taliban-wannabee), we merely insist you and folks like you prove/back up your ridiculous assertions. You've yet to do that Rex, how about now?

:What a galling bit of arrogance and hypocrisy!

You should quit looking in the mirror Rex.

:Guess what, America (and maybe Europe) are waking up to the lies of the liberal/no God agenda and that agenda is now becoming politically incorrect!

Taking responsibility for our own actions is becoming incorrect? Where do you get your info? The day we let lunatics like you into the secular system will never come.

:People are seriously rethinking their lives and the road they are traveling is being recognized as quicksand.

Yes, Rex, people are waking up to the fact that they have been worshipping a homicidal maniac all their lives who is, in reality, a myth created to keep people in line with fear. It is a rude awakening at first but watching fanatics like you rant serves to confirm all that many learn about and dislike when they read the bible.

:This is like 'shooting fish in a barrel'!

I imagine shooting yourself in the foot (as you do all the time) would indeed be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. I guess as long as you enjoy--it have at it. Enjoy!

Thanks for helping me to share the Happy News of biblegod!!
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Sunstarr--

Here are the scriptures from the thread Tina refers to. She has hit her limit in posting and so I post them because she cannot. They are all to d with treatment of women.

*** Rbi8 Genesis 3:16 ***
16 To the woman he said: “I shall greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in birth pangs you will bring forth children, and your craving will be for your husband, and he will dominate you.”

*** Rbi8 1 Corinthians 11:6 ***
6 For if a woman does not cover herself, let her also be shorn; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.

*** Rbi8 1 Corinthians 11:7-9 ***
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, as he is God’s image and glory; but the woman is man’s glory. 8 For man is not out of woman, but woman out of man; 9 and, what is more, man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man.

*** Rbi8 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ***
As in all the congregations of the holy ones, 34 let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says. 35 If, then, they want to learn something, let them question their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation.

*** Rbi8 1 Timothy 2:11-14 ***
11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression.

*** Rbi8 Judges 19:22-30 ***

22 While they were making their hearts feel good, look! the men of the city, mere good-for-nothing men, surrounded the house, shoving one another against the door; and they kept saying to the old man, the owner of the house: "Bring out the man that came into your house, that we may have intercourse with him." 23 At that the owner of the house went on out to them and said to them: "No, my brothers, do not do anything wrong, please, since this man has come into my house. Do not commit this disgraceful folly. 24 Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out, please, and YOU rape them and do to them what is good in YOUR eyes. But to this man YOU must not do this disgraceful, foolish thing."

25 And the men did not want to listen to him. Hence the man took hold of his concubine and brought her forth to them outside; and they began to have intercourse with her, and kept on abusing her all night long until the morning, after which they sent her off at the ascending of the dawn. 26 Then the woman came as it was turning to morning, and fell down at the entrance of the man's house where her master was,-until daylight. 27 Later her master rose up in the morning and opened the doors of the house and went out to get on his way, and, look! the woman, his concubine, fallen at the entrance of the house with her hands upon the threshold! 28 So he said to her: "Rise up, and let us go." But there was no one answering. At that the man took her upon the ass and rose up and went to his place.

29 Then he entered his house and took the slaughtering knife and laid hold of his concubine and cut her up according to her bones into twelve pieces and sent her into every territory of Israel. 30 And it occurred that everybody seeing it said: "Such a thing as this has never been brought about or been seen from the day that the sons of Israel went up out of the land of Egypt down to this day. Set YOUR hearts upon it, take counsel and speak."

Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi Silverleaf:

You wrote:

In essence, I'm wondering if morality may have been born of religion, though it certinly does not require it to survive. And in answer to a question posed by peacepipe, if religion disappeared, yes, morality would continue. If religion had never existed, would morality exist? I don't know.

Of course we can only speculate but looking at some of the horrible acts religion has inspired it is hard for me to believe we couldn't have known morality without it. I think morality comes with enlightenment. Look at how religion has squelched enlightenment over the centuries. Mankind has progressed in spite of religion, not because of it. There is little reason to think otherwise of morality.

I'd rather someone did the "right thing" because of their own conviction instead of their fear of biblegod, people are more likely to be passionate about something they *want* to do.

If the guys who wrote the bible had included some actual enlightenment (instead of useless details, gory battles and absurd laws) I wonder how advanced we would be today?

One could speculate on it the rest of their lives I guess. Fun question though.

Take care--
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Hi Siegswife--

:Julie...What case do you think I'm trying to build? It really doesn't matter to me what you believe, I'm just trying to figure it out.

Oh I don't know, maybe we could rephrase that to read "point you are trying to make". I think you are trying to make the point that mankind needs a god-figure in order to keep in line.

:I know that some of you are quite convinced that the Bible is a work of fiction...fine, believe it if you will. I'm just curious what you think the alternative is.

I do not feel a burning desire to come up with an alternative. I don't feel I need a watchdog in order to be a moral person. The bible is a fear inspiring book. I consider such methods to Machiavellian, he subscribed to the theory that "It is better to be feared than loved if you cannot be both". I have a hard time accepting that we need to live in fear of biblegod in order to "behave". But then again I don't believe in keeping children in line with fear either.

:What do you think is the source of morality and judgement? What do you think is the answer for mankind if God doesn't exist?

I think the source of morality and right and wrong comes from enlightenment. The more we learn and progress the better.

:It seems to me that if God doesn't exist, then men are the source of their own morality and judgement. Who decides whose morality is superior?

I see that many have serious problems with the idea that mankind could be the source of morality and judgement. I guess everyone could be their own judge of what is moral. I personally consider the God of the bible to have very poor morals and many of those who claimed to be "men of God" were even worse.

:Does your belief, or lack of belief mean that someone who doesn't subscribe to the same morals as anyone else is WRONG?

No, not at all. Everyone is free to believe as they please, at least here in the States. I see you interchange the words "belief" and "morals" freely. They are not the same thing and the sooner you understand that the sooner you will understand those who do not believe as you do. Another thing you may want to understand is that it is the *believers* who generally make the derogatory comments regarding non-believers, not the other way around. It is also the believers who are insistent that others believe as they do or they are In For It from biblegod. You won't find any non-believers making threats, veiled or otherwise, to those who Do believe.

:And if they're wrong, what is the source of the definition of right and wrong? If no one believed in God, wouldn't they then be free to do whateverthehell they deemed to be right?

Wait a minute. Didn't biblegod grant "free-will"? Isn't everyone already free to "do whateverthehell" they want? Do you mean if everyone were free of fear from the fierce, warring biblegod we'd all go nuts and civilization would be a thing of the past? I think not. No one I know is anxious to return to the Dark Ages, except for some hard core religious zealots (Muslim and Christian alike, right Rex?)

:If society is what makes these determinations, how does one come to the conclusion that society is right?

One rule of thumb I like to apply and consider is who does an idea profit and who does it benefit? If something profits no one but benefits everyone it is likely to be good (i.e. like my no-violence policy).

:Maybe they're just on an ego trip.

I wonder who the "they" are that you are referring to. Those who don't believe in biblegod and make their own judgements maybe?

Julie

81

OK, This is what I have to say

by peacepipe in

jw
friends

i need to put my two cents in about this even though i'm reading it a couple days after the last post.. when i think of the death of those i care about i usually have no problem picturing them going to heaven forever: some people just to me seem like there is nowhere else they could be.

those who i've been close to that have died that i'm questionable about them actually going to heaven i feel like in some way as long as there are those of us here to remember them they are still kept alive somehow.

when i really think about my own death i have a panic attack.

Julie

Hi Peacepipe-

I have to respectfully disagree with you on the "what would happen if there were no more religion" theory. I study history very seriously and can tell you that in the last thousand years there has been no divider as powerful as religion.

As to terrorism, I think your view is also much mistaken there. Think for a moment about the recent terrorist attacks on America. These guys were fed a twisted version of Islam and very likely believed that their heinous actions would be "rewarded" by Allah upon their deaths. Anyone who thinks this life is all you get, and they are relatively healthy in the mind, would never end their own lives on purpose.

You asked:
What would be the moral thread to keep goodness in society?

How about the concept "for the greater good"? Not doing good things for others in order to obtain entry to heaven but because this is all we have and it's up to us to make it as nice or horrible as we want. I am not a believer in biblegod or immortality. My children are raised in a non-violent, loving home and get a constant example of charity work. They know I help out at the pantry because "people are hungry" not because God wills it. I don't sit around and pray for a cure for cancer but I dedicate plenty of effort to an organization trying to find a cure. My kids are learning to be very moral people and no religion is needed to do it.

A believer seeing miserable, starving people in far-away lands (or their own backyard) may take "comfort" that at least in the next life these poor souls may get into heaven. A non-believer seeing such is going to see someone who's only shot at life is miserable.

I think being a non-believer makes one realize the actual reponsibility we all have to each other, takes away those easy cop-outs "it is God's will" or "God will make it all right in the end". We should all be grateful for those who don't wait around for God to right the wrongs in our world.

Just my two cents--
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Sunstarr--

Thank you for your reply, yes, I agree that tolerance is important and I subscribe to it myself. I have no problem with people who believe in biblegod, that's yours, or anyone's perogative. I do have a problem with anyone who makes derogatory remarks toward those who do not believe as they do, and I don't necessarily refer to you here. Do know however that if you come onto a discussion board and make assertions you will likely be called to explain/back them up. All here are not likely to take your view as Unassailable Truth as they/we have learned enough lessons on that account.

Siegswife--

You tried to use that "laws" analogy with me but you were a bit less coherent last time I saw this argument from you (you remember, where you were telling me about your friend putting a gun to her kid's head and explaining what a "good mother" she was?). I do not agree with all the laws here or abroad. Many laws are baseless and/or founded on fear. While here in America our justice system has plenty of imperfections it's the picture of enlightenment compared to some laws in the bible. Take for instance the poor fellow who picked up sticks on Sunday, he will pay the same penalty as the fellow who killed his father on Monday (death, btw). This is ridiculous and absurd. There are countless laws like this throughout the bible. I am sorry if you have a problem with this but in my view, the person/being responsible for those laughable laws in the bible is about as unenlightened as you can get. Comparatively speaking America must be heaven compared to wherever such a lunatic would be in charge (and it sounds rather Taliban-ish so we could be talking Afghanistan).

The laws analogy is a poor one for building your case, I would latch onto another if I were you.

Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

Take it easy sunstarr--

Try not to get so worked up defending biblegod, it will get you nowhere. Let's face it there are many atrocities in the bible. It obviously irritates you that there are people who find such behavior unacceptable in other humans, much less a creature of enlightentment. Hey if you want to make excuses for this homicidal maniac that is your right. Don't claim that those of us who consider wholesale slaughter and countless sick acts to be unenlightened as ignorant people. We just aren't excusing barbarism as some sort of "mysterious wisdom" like you are willing to do.

I guess we all have different opinions of what goes under the Enlightened column.

You said:
That way, they will become........Jehovah's Witnesses! Julie...surely you don't think that isolation is the best way for God to train his people.

No, apparently biblegod thought the best way to "train" his people was to keep them persecuted and warring with their enemies. I don't think isolationism is the way to raise healthy, stable children. I think non-violence and tolerance are two key components though, two things your biblegod seems to be very strongly against.

I pity those who try to defend the indefensible--
Julie

67

God's image

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

we are made in god's image and he is a person, not just some invisible, omnipresent force.

here is some more research for those who love to ask questions yet won't do the digging.. the bible consistently portrays god as a passionate individual, whose inner experiences of love, compassion, grief, delight, joy, peace, anguish, and moral outrage at atrocity dwarf ours in the extreme.

the bible makes no apology for this, but rather exults in the living one, in contrast to the dead and lifeless idols that surrounded its writers.. one scholar put it thus:.

Julie

:What would you do with individuals who blatantly made themselves enemies of you and actively threatened the lives and health of your children?

When I see this justification for the wholesale slaughter in the bible it makes me wonder. Why didn't God just scoop up the Jews and plop them onto some other part of the Earth? Some unpopulated place? Maybe a place that was even nicer than that barren patch of desolate desert they're forever killing each other over?

Doesn't sound like a very powerful or magnificent being to me.

Julie