...suffering was not so bad.
his "perfection" and understanding of the situation would certainly have mitigated his suffering.. his death was not really death, not in any meaningful sense.
it was a 15 second nap, using bible reasoning.
Rex!!!
I am so glad to see you made it back!! I thought that your lack of reply indicated something awful had happened to you as I was certain such a zealous crusader for truth and enlightenment as you would never deliberately avoid answering my reply to you in Mired in Atheism.
Thankfully you are well. I look forward to your reply as I complied to your request and I know you are honorable to hold up your end of the bargain. You are, aren't you?
Julie
seeing all these different people on this board, together with varying personalities, thoughts and opinions, makes me wonder about our reading and viewing material.. take the daily news.
if you watch tv, which news programme do you spend most time viewing and why?
the same question as to which daily newspaper you read, plus, does your newspaper have a political bias that attracts you?
Hey E-man--
I catch CNN and MSNBC in the morning but I like to go to the Drudge report. Even though I think Matt Drudge can be a lunatic he has links to just about every news sit on the planet and I can get news from all over the world.
I saw that many like O'Reilly--I would like him better if he would let his guests speak a little more. I am more interested in what htey have to say than what he has to say, but I guess he thinks otherwise.
Can't stand the hate mongers like Rush Limbaugh who is forever doling out twisted "facts" and serious misinformation. Americans lap it up though. Go figure!
Julie
watching the david letterman "late show" last night was very touching.. dave had on as his main guest, dan rather, cbs newsman and anchor.
of the cbs evening news.. now, this man, rather, is supposed to be a hardened journalist,.
whose job is to report the news objectively and hide emotions/opinion.. he has seen a lot in his long career as a journalist.. he broke down in tears last night twice while dave was interviewing .
I agree with hawk about journalists. Their reporting should always be without bias. When I watch the news I just want the facts, not the opinion of the Talking Head.
That's why I cannot stomach Fox News. You know, the channel where they are FOREVER proclaiming to be "Fair & Balanced"? As Shakespeare would say, "Me thinks they do protest too much". What a bunch of Rush Limbaugh wannabees (which is a horrifying thought).
Julie
...suffering was not so bad.
his "perfection" and understanding of the situation would certainly have mitigated his suffering.. his death was not really death, not in any meaningful sense.
it was a 15 second nap, using bible reasoning.
:"Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."[/b] To prevent this, God threw them out of the garden (Gen 3:23) and put an armed guard at the entrance (Gen 3:24)
Now this is a good issue to take up with someone who calims God knew everything that would happen before it happened. This quote from the bible makes it sound as if God hadn't expected "man" to "become like one of us".
So either a.) God was caught by surprise or b.) God knew this would happen and set up mankind for some sort of sick pratt-fall.
Either way not very Supreme Being I'd say. I know of rulers with better forsight and kinder intentions than that. God outdone by mortals again. Amazing.
Julie, who has no use for a petty, small-minded, vengeful God and woders about those who do
...suffering was not so bad.
his "perfection" and understanding of the situation would certainly have mitigated his suffering.. his death was not really death, not in any meaningful sense.
it was a 15 second nap, using bible reasoning.
This is an interesting discussion with many views. I would like to point out the fact that crucifixion was a common punishment in Jesus' day. There are worse ways to die, longer, more drawn out and just as painful.
I would like to point out to those who haven't got a big problem with all the God-sanctioned murder and cruelty in the bible. These extremists that committed the attack on America last week think they were fulfilling a "holy" cause against the "infidel". Infidel, where have I heard that before? Oh yes!! The crusades!! Of course. That is when Christians were committing "holy" murder too.
If the whole Jesus-crucifixion story is true I can tell you there are countless others who have died for others too. What about the people on the plane that ccrashed in Pennsylvania. They likely made the hijackers crash where they did instead of letting them continue killing htousands of other Americans. Is that not also the ultimate sacrifice? Countless people have died for a cause they believed in or to save the lives of others. Let's not forget that.
In fact, according to the bible, many folks have died involuntarily for the "sin" of others. For example what about the 70,000 who (according to the bible) died because David took a census? Do they not count for anything?
Julie
for those who are interested in "actually doing something" in the fight against the wts, other than posting to dbs, here is a recent us court opinion which does a good job of explaining that us homeowners have the legal right to forbid solicitors (including jws) from entering their private property, including explaining all the constitutional and legal issues.
although this case deals with an newspaper/advertising distributor, jws and "freedom of religion" are also addressed by this lengthy opinion.
it is well worth the read for anyone interested in fighting the wts using this avenue.. ... http://www.cmcnyls.edu/public/uscases/tillman.htm.
It has been my experience that there is no need to take legal action to keep JWs away. The last time they came knocking at my door, I was mighty nice to them, invited them in and sat and talked with them.
Then I merely pointed out the countless scriptures in the bible that are horrific and most un-godlike. The reason given for this was because I told them I doubted the bible was god's word. My but they were certain they could easily convince me otherwise. I set out to show them my reason for doubt. Easy-peasy as I have literally hundreds of such passages marked for easy reference. As I went through and asked for explanations, well you can imagine the dance they had to perform in order to justify the horrors. They were not able to do any better than some of the most zealous fundies here.
It soon became clear to them that they were trying to achieve the impossible. They couldn't get out of here fast enough and I haven't seen any JWs at my door since. We didn't even have to get into JW doctrine or any such nonsense.
Not only is this an effective method but boy is it fun to make some self-righteous, haughty guy (acting like a used car salesman--high pressure) stammer and stutter with nary an answer. They didn't even think to ask where I got the NWT bible which is the one I was using.
It was a mighty satisfactory 15-20 minutes.
Julie
someone e-mailed this to me today.
thought you may enjoy it.. ----------------------------------------------------------------------.
> > gloating over the erosion of the united states.
Greetings to all--
Someone e-mailed this to me today. Thought you may enjoy it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
> > This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
> >
> > America: The Good Neighbor.
> > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
> > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
> > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
> > Commentator. What follows is the full text of his
> > trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
> > Record:
> >
> > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
> > Americans as the most generous and possibly the
> > least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany,
> > Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy
> > were lifted out of the debris of war by the
> > Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
> > forgave other billions in debts.
> >
> > None of these countries is today paying even the
> > interest on its remaining debts to the United
> > States. When France was in danger of collapsing in
> > 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and
> > their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
> > streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
> >
> > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> > United States that hurries in to help. This spring,
> > 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
> > Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman
> > Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged
> > countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
> > writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.
> >
> > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
> > gloating over the erosion of the United States
> > dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
> > country in the world have a plane to equal the
> > Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the
> > Douglas DC10?
> >
> > If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
> > International lines except Russia fly American
> > Planes? Why does no other land on earth even
> > consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You
> > talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.
> > You talk about German technocracy, and you get
> > automobiles. You talk about American technocracy,
> > and you find men on the moon - not once, but several
> > times - and safely home again.
> >
> > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put
> > theirs right in the store window for everybody to
> > look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
> > and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most
> > of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are
> > getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to
> > spend here.
> >
> > When the railways of France, Germany and India were
> > breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
> > rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
> > New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
> > old caboose. Both are still broke.
> >
> > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
> > to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
> > me even one time when someone else raced to the
> > Americans in trouble? I don't think there was
> > outside help even during the San Francisco
> > earthquake.
> >
> > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
> > Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
> > kicked around. They will come out of this thing
> > with their flag high. And when they do, they are
> > entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are
> > gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada
> > is not one of those."
> >
> > Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Take care,
Julie
you've got to be carefully taught.
you've got to be taught to hate and fear.
you've got to be taught from year to year.
Amen Blondie! Hillary Clinton quotes this in her book It Takes a Village and I think it is one of the most accurate observations of humankind around to date.
Thanks for posting it.
Julie
[edited] i appreciate saintsatan's post.
this rebuttal is not intended as any negative response to saintsatan.
i think he did a good thing to post an important point of view, a view that needs consideration to balance out the actioins of political leaders everywhere.
I remember, not long ago, someone posted a Haves and Have Nots theory. I agree with this though I realize this isn't the only issue. There are people in the world who think every American is rich. Of course there are blacks in America who think every white is rich. There are misconceptions all over the place. They are not limited to borders or races or religions. It is sad.
What is great though is when we put our differences aside (unfortuantely it usually takes a disaster) and all rally to a great cause. The footage I have seen on TV of people around the world weeping for our victims and vowing to help have touched me greatly. The day of the tragedy we caught some Canadian radio. They were telling everyone how many Americans were stranded in their country and urging folks to "seek them out and offer them aid and support". How touching!
I love America and all her friends. I hope soon that all countries in the world could be on that friend list. I guess I've spent too much time around little kids and their boundless optimism can be contagious.
Love to all--
Julie
P.S. I think the wave of people trying to come here and live is a testament enough to how America is viewed by most.
here is a mild, brief explanation to answer the question: why??.
i am certainly not minimizing the loss of life, anguish and fear being experienced by americans and canadians.. the following is from this address.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0%2c4273%2c4255855%2c00.html.
Before America was attacked last week I was frankly becoming more and more alarmed at Bush's isolationism attitude. When this tragedy happened I wondered how all the world would react. Of course everyone is worried it could happen to them too and they have come to our aid, thankfully. Also, the Bush administration hadn't been in power to do enough damage (yet) to totally piss everyone off at us. Of course I see the DOW down 500 points already. We all know how American love their money. We also know how much the world loves America's money. If the money thing doesn't straighten out he's a one termer regardless. He could bring someone back to life but if the economy doesn't improve.....it's all over.
My greatest hope in all of this discovery of America's dirty laundry will that maybe the American voters will snap out of their apathy and pay a little more attention come election time.
Julie
