Greetings to all,
Ginny, I welcome your challenge to answer for my words/actions toward Amazing. I claim no magical power to read hearts and minds but I do like to think I have some reasoning ability and the power of deduction. As to your "if you can dish it out, you should be willing to take it" remark, hey when you told me privately of your plan to admonish me publicly what did I reply? I said go for it. See, unlike some, I will never run away from my words, always willing to answer for them. I will either stand by them or admit error and retract. Of course my opinions have remained the same publicly and privately as you can see by our e-mails.
I will be addressing the whole debacle starting with Amnesian's rebuttal thread, which, IMO started off this whole thing and where I came into the picture as well.
Here is Amazing's first remarks regarding Amnesian's post:
:Amnesian: Your post is long, sprinkled with twisting quotes, misrepresetnations, and a self-deluded series of getting yourself off of the hook, while shifting the blame to others, and you make some good points on which I can agree. I will make a new post to you in a couple of days when I have some time to wade through what you have written.
Okey dokey, fair enough. I know I was looking forward to him backing up these allegations as were probably many others.
Then, instead of the promised rebuttal, we get an offer of reconciliation which I will spare the reader of having to drudge through yet again but really must include these condescending *and* contradictory remarks:
:You both are valued and respected posters on JWD, and I appreciate what you have contributed to many discussions. Like most people, I don't enjoy having breaches with people, and would rather find a way to resolve matters and reconcile. I hope that we can reach a point of common ground that works for us all. My goal right now is not so much to continue any debate, but to see if it is possible to reconcile our differences without violating our views.
Now maybe I am reading Amazing's heart here but don't you find it odd that he feels the need to assure them that they and their remarks are valued at JWD but he WILL NOT BE ADDRESSING THEM???? I think it interesting he takes this initial reassuring tone in telling them how valuable they are and then announces he will be completely disregarding all those valued thoughts. He is either lying about how he values those thoughts or feels he cannot address them, wonder which it is?
(Here's the reply we get in the same thread when he is called on his complete dismissal of Amnesian's post. I deduce from this Reconciliation thread that it was a graceful way to side-step the debate)
:Okay everyone, you got it ... my reply is done, I just need to edit it, and will post it tomorrow sometime. - Amazing (note, here he says his rebuttal is DONE)
(This is from the Ok Tina & Amnesian your (sic) on Thanks to Julie thread, which to me reads like Ok Girls Big Daddy is Going to Teach You a Lesson and You Have Julie To Blame, LOL, but I guess that's just me):
:After a couple of days, I finally got some posts besides JT's on my Invitation to Tina and Amnesian. JT made some thoughtful comments as did the others,
Call me presumptuous but IMO the "others" here was added as an afterthought, couldn't be just giving the one positive response credit, that would look bad--I could be mistaken, just my take, read on and see what brought me to this conclusion)
:Except that others felt that Amnesians post was well written, and deserved a full reply, and that my attempt at making Amends was seen as brtushing Amnesians thoughtful arguments aside.
Here we see what he really thought of what the "others" had to say.
:I copied Amnesian's post to my processor, and at 8 pitch Arial, single spaces, 1/2" margins, it came to about 12 pages. My response, to be effective will be much longer. It is mostly complete as it stands, but will require editing. I also may add some other material I feel will help. I will try to post it tomorrow, but as I go over it again, there is a chance I may find more issues the address.
(Interesting, a while back it was already "done" just a little fine tuning. Now he has started to bemoan the fact that it her post is twelve pages long and is "mostly done".)
:The reason I decided to end it by making amends is that I felt that the whole discussion went far out on a limb away from my original intention to have objective discussion of Elder culpability.
Frankly I thought Amnesian's post did some serious addressing of elder culpability issues. True she threw in plenty of commentary but she stayed pretty on topic. So much so that you might notice the many pages that followed also were, for the most part, relevent to the culpability issue.
:I was caught off guard and blindsided by what felt like blind militant tongue lashing in the name of noble passion ... and allegations against me that were wholly untrue, unfair, and in some ways bold faced lies. I began to feel that I was nothing but cannon fodder for a much different agenda ... and I just didn't want to play the game.
Here we begin with the martyrdom. "Caught off guard"?? "Blindsided"?? He seems to have forgotten here that Amnesian's post was a mere rebuttal to words he had already said. This is a blatant attempt to misrepresent the whole thing, play the victim, which he is not. I would go so far as to call it dishonest. Toss in a few more extremely inflammatory words/phrases like "blind militant tongue lashing", "cannon fodder" and his REPEATED allegations of untruths, unfairness and lies and voila! You have a martyr in the making!!! I have seen the allegations (repeatedly)and nothing to back them up yet! I wonder if someone made such allegations against you Ginny, how would you react?
:But, Julie's comments made me realize that I need to take another look at this, and give it a shot. So, give me a little time with this, and I will respond to Amnesians post in its entirety.
Glad I was able to encourage him to at least consider taking the honorable way to addressing the whole thing.
(Replies to comments in his preface thread *I think, hard to keep track of all his threads*)
:How has my ego gotten to me? Amnesian posts 12 looooooonnnnnngggggg pages, and everyone in sight eats it up like candy.
*ROFL!!!* Now we REALLY know what he thought of what the "others" had to say! So anyone who thought Amnesian's post was good was like a stupid child gobbling up candy.
:I post a couple of pages and I am accused of giving my life's story, engaging in egocentricity. Yet not one person has made one single point that demonstrates their claims. I challenge you to demonstrate such a claim. I find it all curious. This is just one of those judgment calls where I have decided to proceed - albeit, with caution.
Well considering all that was expected and really due from him was a rebuttal some of us got tired of his All-About-Me posts. We wanted rebuttal, Amnesian deserved one and we got Amazing's views, progress in personal growth, his philsophies and just about everything BUT a rebuttal. Sorry but this smacks of narcissism to me. Especially considering the fact the he is bewildered why we didn't "eat it up like candy".
(A gracious option for us, who are apparently "asking for it" to just say the word and we will be spared the Amazing rebuttal we have heard so much about)
:Lastly, I have recieved advice from differnt views, all of which I respect, that encourage me to say nothing, or make amends, or make a full blown reply. I tried the former first. It did not achieve any results. So, based on what Julie and Outnfree stated, I changed course to see if that would make a difference. Unless Amnesian, or Tina, or Julie or others ask me to forget it, and move on, then I will do as I promised them, and follow through. - Amazing
By golly I have yet to see that promise fulfilled. So much for Promise Keepers, eh?
:I already said farewell in my apology post to Julie. But many of you may not have read it since it was specific to her.
Another ROFL!!! No, only 571 hits on that post. Was it feared not many saw it or were there not enough "Oh please don't go!!!" replies? Another intersting point on the Apology post to Julie, I have read it several times and did not see an apology anywhere.
Ginny, this guy has put in quite a performance. I urged him to stand up and make his rebuttal and quit whining so much about how long Amnesian's post was. He thanked me for urging him to "try again". I never said try again, I said try. I do not appreciate my words being twisted in order to serve his CYA purpose.
I see allegations not backed up, I see lies about how the rebuttal is done and then the fact that Amnesian's post is 12 pages long and it will take a long time to address (though he'd already claimed it to be done). I have seen him use some of the most inflammatory language in describing Amnesian and her post and some rather snide insinuations about those who were "stupid" enough to think her post worthy of merit.
No, I cannot read the hearts and minds of others but I sure as hell can deduce from their words what they mean to say, no matter how they may try (and often fail) to disguise or sugar coat it.
I have seen Amazing hold grudges (I can point to myself as an example) for the slightest insult for ages. You bruise his ego your ideas are shallow and without merit. If you really bruise his ego you are merely using him as the "whipping boy" for the week or perhaps you are substituting him for an "elder to burn in effigy". (Oh the drama!!)
Call me a judgemental, presumptuous bitch if you like but I see self-pity and narcissism in pretty much all of his posts since Amnesian wrote her rebuttal. He used the words "blind-sided" many times which is very dishonest considering this was no out-of-the-blue discussion/post.
Yep, I stand by my assessment of Amazing's words/actions since Amnesian's posts. I am sorry though to have had to rehash it all in order to defend myself against your public reproval. While my plainspoken style may be offensive to some I would like to think I don't hide behind ambiguity and when I have spoken to someone they know *exactly* what it was I meant to say. Personally I think that to be more honorable than clever ambiguity, inflammatory language or any other manner of insinuation.
Sorry if my addressing what I considered to be very poor behavior honestly and directly has offended you or caused you distress. I merely tried to get Amazing to quit with the tactics and deliver the rebuttal as repeatedly promised. Apparently my efforts failed.
Warm Regards,
Julie, who apologizes for bringing this nasty business to the top again but really felt Ginny's post merited a reply/explanation
