If they wanted to, they could have had a TV program for the last half of the twentieth century. But, they don't want anything that will take the responsibility off the shoulders of the individual JW. By forcing the people to spend their time engaging in a humiliating, time-consuming work that is no pleasure for the majority, they exercise control over them. That is the name of the game: control. They are not going to give this up for a more efficient, high-tech way of proclaiming the message.
Justin
JoinedPosts by Justin
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Future of the Preaching Work?
by NeonMadman ini wrote the following comments in a response to joelbear's thread on the 4 steps to the new system.
but they were sort of off topic there, and i thought they might be of interest as a separate thread.
at one time, door to door work was highly effective.
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New Testament Paradise Earth
by TheListener inone of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament.
i've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.. the only occasions i can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with jesus in paradise.. none of these are overly convincing.
why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise.
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Justin
Now regarding the OT/NT issue: After I left JWs I wanted to avoid any special terminology which was used to set us apart from everyone else. But now I find that the language is changing, and if we want to keep up we need to have some second thoughts. The term "Hebrew Scriptures" is becoming more commonplace in the mainline because it is felt that "Old Testament" is a concept which Christianity has superimposed on the Jewish Bible. This, however, presents its own problem for those who include the Apocrypha in their "Old Testament," for while some of these books may have had Hebrew originals, they come to us through the Greek Septuagint version and therefore could not be Hebrew Scriptures. But it's something to keep in mind if dealing with persons sensitive to this issue.
Another issue is the fact that in 1965 the Society started using "B.C.E." and "C.E." in place of "B.C." and "A.D." When I left, I cheerfully reverted to the latter. But now I find that, with the general culture being less oriented toward Christianity, many scholars are using the more generic "B.C.E." and "C.E." All we can do is realize that language is used to communicate, and we certainly don't want to be using the terminology of some "in" group which is used to separate us from everyone else.
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The Lost Ark of the Covenant and Hidden Treasure
by Leolaia inin 2 maccabees 2, there is an interesting story about how the prophet jeremiah hid the ark of the covenant and the tent of meeting prior to the destruction of jerusalem in 587 bc: "we find in the archives that the prophet jeremiah, when he had given the deportees the order to take the fire, warned the deportees never to forget the lord's precepts....the document also described how the prophet, warned by an oracle, gave orders for the tabernacle and the ark to go with him when he set out for the mountain which moses had climbed to survey god's heritage.
on his arrival jeremiah found a cave-dwelling, into which he brought the tabernacle, the ark and the altar of incense, afterwards blocking up the entrance.
some of his companions came up to mark out the way, but were unable to find it.
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Justin
The lost ark is found at Revelation 11:19 at the sounding of the seventh trumpet: "And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven; and there was seen in his temple the ark of his covenant; and there followed lightnings, and voices, and thunders, and an earthquake, and great hail." (ASV) Does this mean the original ark was transported to heaven; or does it mean that, according to the law of correspondencies, there must be a heavenly ark in the heavenly temple; or is the ark seen here an antitype of the original ark?
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New Testament Paradise Earth
by TheListener inone of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament.
i've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.. the only occasions i can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with jesus in paradise.. none of these are overly convincing.
why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise.
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Justin
The problem is that the NT writers themselves have differing viewpoints. Some are more gnostic in the sense that salvation to them means returning to our true home in heaven (eg., John 14:1-4) whereas those who are closer to the original Jewish apocalyptic think in terms of ages, with one age succeeding the other, and to them salvation means entering the new age. These ages succeed one another in this world, not some other. The WT has managed to harmonize these divergent views by teaching two salvations - one earthly and the other heavenly.
In the annunciation to Mary, the angel Gabriel tells her regarding Jesus: "the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever." (Luke 1:32-33) The throne of David would be an earthly inheritance, but the WT cannot use this text because it has Jesus himself on the earth forever! At the ascension the apostles asked Jesus: "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" The kingdom restored to Israel would be earthly, and Jesus did not tell them that they had a wrong expectation, but merely replied: "It is not for you to know the times or the season, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts 1:6-7) The fulfillment would come at "the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21) This last verse was quoted frequently by the old Bible Students, but not so by the WT today.
Jesus told the apostles: "Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:28) Where would that be? On the earth. And then, contrasting Christ with the angels, the writer to the Hebrews states: "For not unto angels did he subject the inhabited earth to come, whereof we speak." (Heb. 2:5, ASV, margin) This is, there will be an inhabited earth to come. So you see, many of the texts in the NT which refer to a paradise earth (but not by name) cannot be used by the WT because they contradict its own teachings.
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Jesus came to inspect the churches in 1918 - Where does the Bible say THAT?
by VM44 inthe watchtower says that jesus came to inspect all the churches in 1918/19 and then chose the bible students to be his chosen ones.. what i want to know is, where does the bible say that jesus was going to do any inspection at all?
let alone a special inspection in the year 1918!.
this "inspection", upon which the watchtower obtains all of its authority, sounds like something added to the bible!
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Justin
If the "temple" which was inspected consisted of those associated with the Society ("the anointed"), then the application should remain with that group. To extend the application to all the churches of Christendom introduces inconsistency into the picture.
I believe, however, that Rutherford was looking for a way to distinguish his presidency from the Russell era and needed to find a prophecy in order to do so. In this he was never quite successful. Rutherford would have liked to put the original Bible Student movement in a class with the churches, and to have claimed that the one group was selected out when he became president. But to make this claim more emphatically, he would need to deny the foundation on which he himself was building. He also wanted his own people to believe that they (as "the anointed") had achieved a status which was never held by those Bible Students who had left the Society - that these independent Bible Students could never achieve the insights of those who had been united in the "temple." As more of Rutherford's works become available we may see that many of his statements regarding the "temple" and its judgment were inconsistent.
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"Truth is a pathless land"
by Justin inimagine the leader of a religious organization telling his people to fold it up and go home.
that's just what happened in 1929 when jiddu krishnamurti dissolved his order of the star.
he was 34 years old, and was being groomed by theosophists to be the new messiah since childhood, but decided he would have none of it.
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Justin
Imagine the leader of a religious organization telling his people to fold it up and go home. That's just what happened in 1929 when Jiddu Krishnamurti dissolved his Order of the Star. He was 34 years old, and was being groomed by Theosophists to be the new Messiah since childhood, but decided he would have none of it. The Order included about 60,000 at that time. Read his speech, given at a convention of followers, at http://bernie.cncfamily.com/k_pathless.htm .
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So what's your favorite JW joke?
by TresHappy inmy favorite one is: what happens when your cross a jehovah's witness with an atheist?
someone who knocks at your door for no apparent reason.
i love this joke.
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Justin
The name of the brother who gave the talk on discipline was Seymore Burnbutts.
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Will the anointed remnant survive Armageddon?
by Bonnie_Clyde ini always thought that was what the society teaches.
in fact, haven't there been discussions about how we know the end has to be near because the number of the anointed remnant is decreasing, but there still have to be a few on the earth when armageddon comes to help get the educational work organized in the new world?.
well, i ran across this article today from the 9-1-89 wt pages 20 and 21, paragraphs 12 and 13. i was attending back then.
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Justin
survive Armageddon. Surviving Armageddon and living long enough to see the beginning of the resurrection would be two different things - the earth would have to be prepared to receive the resurrected ones and this would take some time.Blondie has a good point - how can the marriage supper of the Lamb proceed with some anointed still on earth? And as far as dieing prematurely, this is precisely what the early Bible Students expected, that the final ones would be killed in the persecution.
Added: I couldn't possibly remember a statement from 1989, as I left in 1980! Perhaps I at one time read something similar to this.
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So..Just how many doors did JC knock on???
by upside/down inhe's the "exemplar" of christianity...right?
so what else did jc not do that so-called "christians" today do practice...?
p.s.- yes i'm refering to the dubs...primarily...
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Justin
Just how many doors did JC knock on?
Only one - the door to your heart - Rev. 3:20. (Just couldn't resist!)
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Trinity?!?!
by Lynne Y inhello, it's lynne again... how's everyone doing?
um..i have a quick question.. haha.. .
one of the most distinguishable doctrine(?
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Justin
The Trinity doctrine is "put together" from various Bible verses, similar to the way that JW beliefs such as Gentile Times and no blood transfusions are "put together." So I find that the Trinity can be derived from Scripture, and I'm comfortable with the end result - especially with the earlier versions of the doctrine. But I find that I cannot go back into the Bible and think as a trinitarian within the Biblical context itself - in other words, I can get the Trinity out of the Bible and then it stands on its own, but I cannot take it back into the Bible.
When I say I am comfortable with an earlier version of the Trinity, I mean just that - an earlier version because the doctrine has undergone various modifications historically. The doctrine which was accepted at the Council of Nicea was not what it later came to be. The Fathers were concerned that the Son was begotten of the Father, not created as Arius claimed. But later trinitarians claimed that each Person of the Trinity is equivalent to the Trinity as such. This is where the belief becomes more paradoxical and to me is further from the Bible.
JW arguments against the Trinity are usually proofs that the Son is not the Father, but trinitarianism when properly understood also teaches this. Unfortunately, much popular trinitarianism is a compromise with modalism (the thought that one Person has appeared in three different modes), and JWs take full advantage of this, although the idea was considered just as heretical by the Church Fathers as Arianism was.
Reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, with its chapter on the Trinity, may help. Also, When Jesus Became God by Richard E. Rubenstein explains the further development of the doctrine after Nicea, though I think Rubenstein relies too heavily on scholars who think that Arius did not even believe Jesus had a prehuman existence.