Posts by Cicatrix

41

JW Baptism

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the baptism of jehovah's witnesses compared with the baptism of the christians in the bible .

jesus christ commanded:.

"go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all things which i commanded you.

I was just reflecting seriously on both of these issues this week. I was reading the Bible,and was surprised to read that Jesus was considered to be above the angels in power. The scriptures I was reading seemed to indicate that Jesus was NOT an angel at any point (the version I was reading said "God never said to any angel,"You are my Son, and today I have given you the honor that goes with the name."-Hebrews 1:5&6, The Living Bible. I checked other versions, and they seemed to be in agreement with this). Interesting. I don't ever remember discussing these verses at the meetings:)

The baptism issue is what turned off most of my family members to the organisation. There was always some "reason" that my family members didn't qualify for baptism, even though their actions qualified them in every way. They came to believe it was simply that the presiding overseer didn't like something about them personally, so withheld their right to be full-fledged members of the congregation.There was never any concrete reason given by the elders for not baptising them, so I am inclined to believe them.

When I read the passages on baptism, I couldn't see the need for all of the rules and regs either, just in the belief that Jesus was the way to salvation.

When I was on my way out, I read an article about marrying outside of the "truth" in the WT. It stated that doing so would cause pain to the believer at Armageddon when Jehovah destroyed their unbelieving mate. I think it said unbaptised mate, but I won't state that for sure,as I got mad and tossed that WT and all the others,lol. I found that to be such a preposterous statement, knowing the situation of some of my own family members. How dare an organisation of men blandly state that all unbaptised people would be destroyed, when they were taking it upon THEMSELVES to deem who was worthy of baptism and who wasn't!!

33

Nothing Hurts Like This

by JT in

jw
friends

james: .

though i may, on more than a few occasions, have questioned whether or not i wanted to be one of jehovahs witnesses and i may at some point decide that i dont, i can assure you that i would never contact you again.

it is really unfortunate that you felt the need to post our email exchanges on jw.com because to be honest with you, i actually thought that you may have been sincerely interested in me as a person.

Cicatrix

Hi JT,

When I read the lady's response to your post, I had to laugh. I was her just a short year ago. When people tried to point out the inconsistencies in WT teachings, I would just shut down and refuse to listen. But, the hurt continued--being a woman with an unbelieving husband was just about as bad as being a single sis in my congregation--and I did finally realise that there was nothing I could ever do to gain their acceptance, and that in fact, it wasn't my failure to follow the program, the problem WAS the program.

I was like you when I started school, only it was in communications class that I was asking all of my questions. My teacher also discerned there was "something more" about me, and I actually ended up in tears telling her about leaving the WTS and the struggle with my own abusive marriage. She happens to work for a women's shelter, so understood a bit about spiritual abuse,and gave me a book to read which helped much. What I learned about paradigms and paradigm paralysis in that class helped me to understand why many of my friends in the congregation who had very severe doubts could still not leave. If you get a chance, you may want to learn about them.

I, like you, find myself a bit agitated while on break, and I look forward to class starting again. But I'm coming to the realization that as great as school is, it is not the whole and sum of the real world, either. Finding a balance after coming out of such a dogmatic, tightly scheduled organisation is hard work!

I hope you continue to post here from time to time. It's refreshing to hear a man discuss the unfairness of life in the org so candidly. I've learned a lot from you and the others here.

Whatever you decide, JT, just remember that your heart was in the right place. You didn't intend any harm to her-you were trying to help. But like anyone with an addiction or problem that needs to be dealt with, you can't force a change in someone who's not ready to make a change. You may have left a point with her that may resonate someday, that she will return to and reason on and understand. That' s what happened to me. I didn't respond right away, but eventually the point WAS taken, the person's sincerity was understood.

I wish you and yours peace and happiness.

Thanks again,

Cicatrix

90

WHAT KIND OF PETS DO YOU HAVE?

by hamptonite21 in

jw
friends

i have been researching the greyhound breed.

does any one have a italian greyhound or greyhound?

my application is in for a retired or rescue dog.

Cicatrix

We have a dalmatian my son named Luci in honor of Lucille Ball, because she is "black and white and everybody loves her."

We had a black lab, but he recently disappeared:(

My daughter thought about adopting a greyhound awhile back. She adopted a thoroughbred a few years ago. We went right to the track to pick him up. She had to sell him when she went to college, but still says he's the best horse she ever owned.

Everyone "says" that dalmatians are agressive, hard to train, etc. also. If that's the case, I guess ours broke the mold, because she's none of the above. She doesn't seem any different in temperment or training ability than our lab was,and she is much less prone to wander than he (and they were both neutered, so that wasn't the issue). I think it really depends more on the individual dog than the breed generalization. The only downside is, dals shed constantly, and I love to wear black. I always have little white hairs on me, no matter how often she is groomed, lol.

31

Hi! Just a Newbie Here.

by auntiem in

jw
friends

i have been looking for a place like this.

seems pretty cool.

i am about 1.5 years inactive and have no plans to go back.

Cicatrix

Welcome, AuntieEm:)

Hope your "visit" is entertaining. I da'd last summer and gave no reason whatsoever for doing so-just left everyone scratching their heads in confusion:) I am lucky that my kids left the org before me (ant they weren't baptised), and my remaining family who was just studying bailed when I did, so I don't have to worry about the shunning thing.

You'll find this board really helpful.

Cicatrix

13

Just who the hell is this Will Shakespeare?

by joannadandy in

i have always heard the arguements, rather absent mindedly in the dark halls of riverview (the english department's ancient building on my campus) that shakespeare is not responsible for writing what is ascribed to him.. my shakespeare professor had to deal with this the first day of class, when someone said, "shouldn't we be talking about marlowe" and he handled it as best he could in those circumstances, "for the purposes of this university and this class it has been decided you need to study shakespeare.

i'm just presenting it, and it's good stuff.

i don't care who wrote it, or how many people wrote it, it's just good literature.

Cicatrix

I don't know a whole lot about Shakespearean historicity, but I've felt "the play's the thing" ever since I first read all of Shakespeare's works the summmer I turned sixteen. I didn't really understand a lot of what I read, but was drawn to it anyway. I find that as I get older, I appreciate the works-whoever wrote them, even more. Oddly enough, my son fell in love with Shakespeare when he was five,with no encouragement from me whatsoever. I've spent the past five years attempting to find books for him on Shakespeare. He seems to also be drawn to the sheer beauty of the words, without a complete understanding of their meaning. We often pop a recording of Shakespeare's sonnets in the cassette player when we travel.

I've heard various arguements as to Shakespeare's identity, most commonly that it was his wife that actually penned his works (I think even an Awake at one time posed that theory). It seems that authorship has been something argued about since time began lol. I don't ascribe to the theory that it couldn't have been Shakespeare himself that wrote the works because of his lack of formal education. I have known too many children who have been "unschooled" who exhibit talents that go far beyond their formally schooled peers to believe that only persons who recieve a formal education can do great things. There are many ways to obtain a well-rounded education. As far as the works resembling Marlowe's,one should keep in mind that imitation was considered to be a way of honoring respected ones at that time.That may explain the similarity to Marlowe's works. Or it may have been Marlowe himself-- who knows. I would think that if Marlowe really cared, he would have left some indication when he died that they were his.

What concerns me is that the conjecture tends to pull people's attention away from what makes the works so timelessly compelling. It doesn't draw one to it, if every time you hear Shakespeare, you are confronted with the controversy about who wrote the works. In an era when aliteracy is becoming the norm, we should want to do all we can to encourage people to delve into the material and appreciate the things that Shakespeare had to say about the human condition, as much of it is as relevant today as it was then.I think that may be what your professor was trying to get across to the class.

Now I'll get off my soapbox and tell you that although I like the works of Shakespeare, I tend to agree with you about all of the hullabaloo. Just what exactly makes one "the greatest mind of all English literature"? Writing is about perception-it's not something that can be proved factually beyond a shadow of a doubt. How could there be one greatest mind of literature, when there are so many wonderfully diverse points of view to consider? And so many unique writing styles. Personally, I don't want to narrow my enjoyment of the written word down like that:).

So which of the works moves you the most? I particularly like Othello and Sonnet 16.

21

When you left the Org............

by SillyPutty in

jw
friends

what did you do with all those bound volumes, song books, bibles, study books and such?

mine are all packed away in the shed.

Cicatrix

I stuck all mine in the basement, with thoughts of selling them on ebay:) Then I read here about the print changes, and I decided to keep them for future reference. I do have volume 1 of "The Divine Plan of the Ages" in my hutch, though-the one with the pyramid overleaf:)

30

How was it for you?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

with 2002 almost consigned to history, how was it for you?

how would you sum up your 2002?

nah, this isn't a poll; we do those on the weekends!!

Cicatrix

Started college.

Reunited with my father and became friends with my awesome step-mom.

Quit attending meetings.

Gained a new son-in-law.

Officially got off the WTS rollercoaster.

Reconnected with my brothers and sisters.

Had the joy of watching my children celebrate holidays for the first time.

Found out that I'm going to be a grandma.

Found this site.

All in all, I'd say it's been one of my best years yet:)

I hope everyone has a happy and peaceful 2003

Love,

Cicatrix

19

Attending the "right" hall

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

there always seemed to be such a big stink about making sure you went to the hall that you were assigned to.

whatever territory that you lived in, that would be the hall assignment, whether you liked it or not.. if you chose not to go to your assigned hall, boy was there ever flack.

you could get severely counciled for it.. just seems to be another stupid rule that they would get upset about.

Cicatrix

In my "ignorance", I once abruptly moved from one state to another and changed halls without notifying the presiding overseer of my old hall. I had no idea that I was "required" to notify them of my move so they could send my records ahead. The poop sure hit the fan over that one:)

That "permission" from the elders to move thing always bothered me. Since when do a couple of imperfect men (one retired and well-off, the other living off from a trust fund his "unbelieving" parents set up for his children) have the right to tell me that I can't move to a place where we could make a better living for our family?

13

Blessings for Loyalty

by JH in

jw
friends

did you believe that you would be blessed by god by doing more in the organization?

did you see a relationship between being blessed by god and being active in the organization?

Cicatrix

My understanding on this while in the org was paradoxical. On one hand, we were told that Jehovah would bless us, and on the other, we were told that if we were true Christians, we would experience persecution on a regular basis.I'd hear people who were experiencing rough times exclaim-"Well, I must be doing something right for Jehovah to be facing all this persecution," while at the same time when someone else was experiencing problems, they would berate them for their lack of faith and suggest that they were doing something immoral in secret and "reaping what they sowed!"

22

About that pesky number 666...

by czarofmischief in

as a horror fan, i've seen every antichrist movie from the omen to the omega code.

and that number 666 keeps popping up.

so, i was thinking about that number, and how it's actually written in the bible is a bit odd.

Cicatrix

Wow Yiz, great info. Did you get any of this from a site I could visit? What is the title of the book you mentioned? I'd heard the claim that SH was trying to rebuild Babylon, but never had seen any info on it. This intrigues me.

Also, concerning the antichrist. JWs teach that the Bible says there is more than one antichrists. Can anyone explain??

Thanks

Cicatrix