Cicatrix

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Posts by Cicatrix

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  79

  Are You A man Or A Woman?

  by SpannerintheWorks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sometimes, the gender of a poster is relatively easy to deduce due to their style of posting, and, dare i say it, their choice of vocabulatory.

  but sometimes it is difficult to know if you are "talking" to a man or a woman (or homosexual).

  ok, right away, i hear protests of "what the heck does it matter?

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  Cicatrix

  Beer and boob appreciation and a porn collection define masculinity???:)
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  8

  First Halloween

  by freedom96 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  let me say first of all, i have never been a big fan of halloween.

  the witches, monsters, etc, never appealed to me.. last night, my family and i were invited to a friend of a friends house for food and trick or treating.

  my first inclination, was to find a way to weasel out of it.

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  Cicatrix

  A belated Happy Halloween, Freedom!

  My kids celebrated their first Halloween this year, also. We went trick or treating with their cousins, then went over to their house and had spaghetti and watched Halloween shows on t.v. They were so excited about Halloween, they went to bed early Wednesday night on their own volition so they would be rested up:)They had an absolute blast dressing up and going from house to house.They were so exhausted by all of the excitement, they fell asleep by 9:30.

  My youngest thought we should go trick or treat our former book study conductor-he came up with that one on his own, the little prankster:)

  I'm thirty-something, and I dressed up as a gothic princess while accompanying my kids trick or treating.My costume was quite a hit. I got some "evil eyes" and dissaproving looks from some old church lady types(I think it was just my genre choice, though, not the fact that I was dressed up. The local religious organizations just did a newspaper ad about witches-hehe), but most people thought it was cool that I was in the Halloween spirit, and some even tried to get me to take candy, which I politely declined.I even talked my sister into dressing up, and she hadn't done so since she was fifteen.Of course, everyone loved her--she was a Rennaisance princess.Most of the adults handing out candy at the doors were dressed up, also.

  I stopped at the store on the way home to get some groceries, and got some neat reactions. One guy commented on my costume, and said that he was going to have some fun, too.He told his significant other that they were going to go home and get dressed up and go out, because it was high time they started enjoying their lives again.

  So next year, why don't you give it a try, Freedom?It's really great that you are going to do things differently for your kids, but you can do more than just survive, too:) The WTS has this dumb old adage that when you leave the org, you just wither up and either become immoral, evil and happy until you are obliterated at armageddon, or downright depressed until you return to mama tower.It's just not that black and white, though.Why don't you start planning your costume now--heck, with a whole year to plan, it should be pretty awesome. I encourage you to be a Thriver, instead of just a survivor ( although {{{{Freedom}}}}}, I understand the bittersweetness of your discovery. I celebrated Halloween when I was a kid, yet denied my own children for years for "their own good". Talk about regrets!).
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  3

  homework assignment

  by jurs in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my daughter was paired up with a boy from our kingdom hall, at school this week.

  they have a research paper that they have to do together.

  now that this research paper has come up, the boy told my daughter that he'd call her because she isn't allowed to call their home.

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  Cicatrix

  Hi Jurs,

  As much as it hurts, consider yourself lucky! I DAd last month, and it's been interesting here. After years of receiving no spiritual help for myself and my children from the elders ( husband was nonwitness), one suddenly decided when I left to make a concerted effort to "help" my kids. Well, not all of them. He wants nothing to do with my daughter, just my sons. The odd part is, this is the elder that was so sure, due to gossip by my nonwitness in-laws, that I had some "secret sin" I was covering up.He approached my husband to ask if he could study with the boys. Quite frankly, I think he continues to have zero interest in my kids, but alot of interest in attempting to wield control over my life, this time using my kids. And they say that witnesses don't attempt to break up families!! Needless to say, the kids will not be studying while they live under our roof. None of them seem to have any desire to have anything to do with the witnesses, anyway. Well, except for my youngest, who wanted to go trick or treat this very elder(he came up with that one on his own out of the blue):)

  I would ask for a new study partner for your child asap.

  As far as the reactions of excongregation members, I've had the same mixed reaction. Right after it was announced that I DAd, I think I ran into nearly every member of my former hal out in public.Some were stern and gave nasty dirty looks, some looked sad, some momentarily forgot and said hello or waved and were mortified. I feel sorry for them all, except for those who wielded their position in a hurtful manner. I'm glad they can no longer talk to me.
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  40

  DESTROYED !

  by Derrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the visiting co pointed out in his talk that "people who love to practice evil will be destroyed [very strong vocal emphasis on this word] !

  " many of you insist he is referring to those whose only "sin" is not being a baptized jehovah's witness and their children.

  after my experiences on the internet from ajwr to h2o to this forum, however, i'm beginning to appreciate that all is not "black" and "white" but many shades of gray, many hues of stunning colors, and a mixture.. why not use the words killed or executed to describe the fate of these evil people, i asked the co afterwards?

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  Cicatrix

  The one thing that I love about this board is the freedom we have to talk about anything we wish with people who have lots of different belief systems.You have the opportunity to post your opinion, and so do others.Critical thinking is encouraged here also.After years of "mental regulating"(ie, if it doesn't fit with the JW program, you better not even THINK it), I find this a place of respite.

  I personally started a thread concerning the wisdom of Solomon, which turned into a discussion of another question I had about the Genesis account and free will.Was I looking for an opportunity to deny the exsistence of God and Christ so I could indulge in immorality with a guiltless conscience?Not that I know of.I simply had questions that have bugged me for years(since before I was JW) and I wanted to discuss them.Lots of folks posted, and I learned a lot.I don't think anyone was trying to "sway" me to believe as they do.They were just posting how they personally felt. That's how conversations work.Sometimes people feel strongly about their stance and defend it. That's how communication works, too.

  The thing that I had a problem with was your automatic assumption that those who don't believe in God and Christ take that stance simply because they wish to live an immoral, selfish lifestyle. You said that not only do they do this, they also try to get others to join them.You mentioned AIDS alot, as if it is some kind of punishment meted out to only those who transgress biblical law.You know, this is the same stuff you hear from the platform week after week at the meetings.It's a pretty weak arguement, designed to scare anyone who questions into compliancy.And it makes me question even more if there really is any such thing as free will.If there were, why would you feel the need to attack those who feel differently with such blanket stereotypes? If your God is the All Knowing Supreme Ruler,can't you just let them believe and live as they wish and let your God figure it all out? But with organized religion, it never seems to work that way, does it?

  From one who has been DESTROYED many times by many people of many religions.
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  30

  Who's Got a Spooky Story to Tell?

  by SpannerintheWorks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's my one and only spooky story.. my wife goes to visit her jw sister, who lives several hundred miles away, about once a year.

  while she is away, i get some major diy jobs done.

  she is away at the moment, so i'm fitting a new bathroom.

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  Cicatrix

  My sister just related something similar to me. She said that her daughter came in one day not too long ago and said that a man standing in the yard under their pine tree told her hello. My sister dashed outside, worried about some strange man talking to her daughter, but there was no one there.My niece kept talking about the man for some weeks after.A while later, they went to visit my sister's in-laws and were looking through thier photo album. My niece looked at one picture and said "There's the man, there's the man." It was my brother-in-law's grandfather. He had built the house that my sister and bro-in-law own, and lived in it for many years.My sister said that was the first time either she or her daughter had seen a photo of the man.

  Another person I know came to me white as a sheet one morning about fifteen years ago, and told me that the night before, they had been driving down a dirt road.Something very tall with glowing red eyes appeared on the road and started to move toward the car. The person said they took off as fast as they could go for home.Well, I pretty much discounted what they said as a very active imagination.A few months ago, I saw The Mothman Prophecies.I called another person whom this person told about the incident, and asked them to watch the movie and tell me what they thought about it. I didn't tell the person what the movie was about or mention the other person who had the experience.A few days later, I went over to their house and asked them what they thought of the movie.They said, "Don't tell so and so about this movie."

  I've had experiences also that I can't simply explain away.
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  63

  What did you do to piss the brothers off?

  by Pleasuredome in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when you were getting fed up with meetings before you gave up, was there anything you did to deliberately get on the brothers nerves?.

  i turned up to a meeting once with jeans on, and a red top with cccp on it with the 'hammer and sickle'.

  i also went to another bs group a few times so that if i wasnt at one group they'd think i was at the other and vice versa.

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  Cicatrix

  When I received yet another assignment to do a talk on wifely submission based on the good example of Sarah, I did research on the time Sarah disagreed with Abraham and God told him to listen to her.It covered the material quite nicely, as I used all of the assigned scriptures, but I don't think it was the message the bros quite intended to get across:)

  Also, I had fun with one of my myriad immorality assignments, too, although I got a bit off topic on this one. I covered the information in the YPA on pornography, aiming it at the husbands and adult men in the audience instead of the youths. Boy, was it fun to watch certain elders squirm:)It was worth having to re-do that one.

  But the best thing I did was refuse to state a reason for DAing myself.No reason, nothing to control.
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  21

  Elders admit huge numbers leaving

  by mamashel in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  .

  my daughters boyfriend was at his moms the other night and the elders just happened to stop by and talk with him.. anyhow, after their discussion about him and my daughter and the baby and what they are going to do, (havent been to meetings in 7 months mind you), her boyfriend told the elders that he no longer wanted to attend meetings and my daughter told them the same.. the elders admitted to them that there is a huge number of people that felt the same way, and the halls are much emptier than they ever were.. hmmm, i wonder why?.

  mamashel

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  Cicatrix

  I think the internet is helping many to leave. The information revealing the changing WTS policies is a real eye-opener for many, including me(this board is where I learned about the UN scandal). I surfed for a number of weeks, after being told about the Silentlambs issue by another witness who taped it. It wasn't what made me want to leave in the first place, but it sure confirmed what I already knew about the society's don't ask/don't tell stance on abuse from firsthand knowledge.Seeing it in print made me realize that I could no longer remain loyal to an organization that claimed to fight for the rights of children and women (oh those slick Watchtower and Awakes), while in the back rooms of kingdom halls all over the world, they wielded the right to cut women and children off from their family and friends if they dare spoke out or sought legal action against their perpetrators(I was told not to call the police also, but my mother did anyway).

  Also, when you are cut off from a way of life you've lived for many years, it can be a bit daunting to start a new one. It really helps to have a place like this board, where you can get advice from others who have been on the inside. I find that most people who haven't lived it have a hard time understanding why it's affected your life so completely.They don't understand that you just can't walk away from a kingdom hall the way you can walk away from the church of a mainstream denomination. I think having the boards to come to for support will help alot of people be able to get on with what is left of their lives. I know personally, when the elders came knocking, I thought of everyone here. When they relayed through my mother that I no longer had the spirit of God, and that I was cut off, I thought about everything I learned here.This board has really been a nice counter weight for me, and many others, I'm sure.
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  8

  Speech on high control groups-any suggestions?

  by Cicatrix in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm considering doing a speech on high control groups for my communications class.

  i have five minutes, so was wondering what angle might be the most appropriate to reach my audience (a mixture of young people just out of high school and people in their mid thirties and forties who are training for career changes).i can't use any specific groups as an example.

  cicatrix

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  Cicatrix

  Thanks for the suggestions.

  Onacruse-I thought about doing general characteristics using the info from this board.I know when I was on my way out, seeing them really helped me understand that I did need to leave.But I thought that five minutes was too short a time to cover it all.

  Larc-I really like your suggestion to relate it to the language aspect.Besides the special language making the group cohesive, I've also noticed that since I've left, certain key words that remind me of events while I was still in, will set me off and make me combative. And Minimus, I think it was, was talking about "kingdom melodies" still popping into her head.Also, there are those ominous words, apostate, disfellowshipped, dissassociated.Think of all the harm they've done to families!

  Smokey-I'm not allowed to mention the name of a specific group, or I probably would. However, I suspect that one of the guys in my class might be studying with a witness because of some things he said(he doesn't know I'm an ex-witness), so I considered not identifying the group just to keep him from tuning out. Also, there are a lot of other high control groups that people should be aware of.I'm glad, though that you spoke out and that it went so well for you! It's nice to know that in some places true freedom of speech still exists (just not in my small college, although this is being challenged regularly by students--myself included). I would definitely let my classmates know that the speech was based on personal experience and offer to talk to them after class about it. We are even allowed to give printed info to anyone who asks for it- we just can't pass it out to the entire class (that's kind of ironic, considering the right the witnesses have fought for and won to deliver their message to the door of every house they visit, based on freedom of religion).
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  16

  The JW Response to Brainwashing Accusations

  by OrbitingTheSun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just thinking about a discussion i had a few years ago when i was still an active jw... .

  i asked a pioneer sister why so many people accused jws of brainwashing.

  she happily responded, "well, they accuse us of brainwashing because that is what we do.

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  Cicatrix

  I had a similar conversation with my mother a few years back. She tried to tell me that I was being brainwashed. I responded by saying "Well, I'm learning to be a better wife, mother, neighbor, and friend by what I'm learning.If the witnesses are washing my brain with positive things, so be it."(totally denying even to myself the divisive nature of the witnesses, who constantly admonished to "keep oneself separate from the world" and "limit association with nonbelieving family members and neighbors, lest they separate you from Jehovah"). And now that I think of it, I had already been doing all those "upbuilding" things before I joined the WTS. I just wasn't taught by my parents and grandparents that doing such made me part of an elite group that deserved salvation over all others(a WTS teaching that I never did agree with).They taught me that it was the duty of all humans to treat their fellow humans thus, not for some reward, but because it was the right thing to do. I'm glad they gave me that foundation, and I'm doubly glad that they never gave up on me!
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  8

  Speech on high control groups-any suggestions?

  by Cicatrix in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm considering doing a speech on high control groups for my communications class.

  i have five minutes, so was wondering what angle might be the most appropriate to reach my audience (a mixture of young people just out of high school and people in their mid thirties and forties who are training for career changes).i can't use any specific groups as an example.

  cicatrix

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  Cicatrix

  Hello All,

  I'm considering doing a speech on high control groups for my communications class. I have five minutes, so was wondering what angle might be the most appropriate to reach my audience (a mixture of young people just out of high school and people in their mid thirties and forties who are training for career changes).I can't use any specific groups as an example.

  Thanks

  Cicatrix