No. In my opinion, Canada is superior to France and Germany. And, I love Quebec.
John W. Wirtanen
JWinSF
JoinedPosts by JWinSF
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11
The US is not happy with us
by JH insince the canadians didn't vote to support the us against iraq, i heard on the radio that the us is not too happy with canada, especially quebec, where i live.
in montreal 200,000 people took to the streets last week to protest against the war in iraq.. trade between canada and the us could be hurt because of this.
do you place canada in the same category as france and germany, since we are against the war?.
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33
Kingdom Ministries - The Jig is Up!
by Stephanus ini got this email earlier:hi, did you know that you may not publish the kingdom ministry at any way?
please remove that page.. didn't think it would amount to much - just another dub throwing his weight around on an apostate site he shouldn't be visiting.
however, i just received a demand from my web host to remove the kms or lose my website.
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JWinSF
The host site obviously isn't up on copyright laws. We ran into a similar problem with our gay site on GeoCities several years back. We posted a picture from one of the books. One of the Society's attorneys contacted GeoCities in a threatening manner. He knew he didn't have a legal right: Copyright laws protect material from being used for monetary gains. You can copy material for educational purposes. However, GeoCities caved in. Since we've never made a penny from the web site, obviously we were not getting any material gain from the picture.
GeoCities shut us down for a while. They subsequently reopened it. In the meantime, our webmaster purchased a domain for our own use so we would no longer be subject to the WTBTS threats and we withdrew from GeoCities..
John W. Wirtanen
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G.W. Bush Quotes
by William Penwell insubject: fw: "don't misunderestimate george bush".
"the vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.
"if we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure.
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JWinSF
Abaddon --- Right on!!!
John W Wirtanen
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Favorite Movie Quotes
by meadow77 ini have tons of them, favorite movie quotes that is.
a misspent youth i guess, but i love movies.
i was watching one of my favorites the other day,seven.
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JWinSF
Bell, Book, and Candle: Jimmy Stewart to ex-girlfriend talking about Kim Novak [a witch]: "No, you don't understand, she's a witch." [Her reply], "Oh Shep, you just never learned how to spell."
Steel Magnolias: Olympia Dukakis: "If you can't say anything nice about someone, come sit by me." Shirley Maclaine to Darryl Hannah's remark that things just couldn't get worse: "Of course they can."
Blazing Saddles: Madeline Kahn to Cleavon Little: "Tell me, is it twue that men of your persuasion are ... uh ... gifted? [pants unzip] Oh, it's twue, it's twue."
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil: The Lady Chablis being rolled into ER on a gurney: "Oh, Oh, either it's my appendix or my water broke."
History of the World, Part I: Moses coming down from the mountain with three tablets: "I have fifteen [one tablet falls and shatters] ten, ten commandments."
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Are there too many EX-JW Born agains?
by sleepy ini dont wish to offend anyone but this is what i think.a large number of people who leave the jehovahs witness movment become born again christians or join other religious groups.but is this a sign that many who have learnt that "gods chosen organisation" is wrong have not learnt anything at all?.
maybe the prospect of facing a future without a god , a divine purpose , and a faith just too much for some people to bear.but in joining another religious group are they not making the same or similar mistakes as before?they are still putting their trust in a ancient book written by people they have never met, interpretted by other people or by themselves, they have not maybe learnt to be analytical in their thinking and to withhold trust until reasonably solid evidence is provided on an issue.. although other religious may or may not be more harmful than jehovahs witnesses if lessons on thinking and reasoning have not been learnt then we could be open to many more errors of judgment in our lives.. so does the fact that many jehovahs witnesses join other religons show that they are just moving on rather than understanding why jehovahs witness are wrong and learning from it?.
maybe they dont fully grasp that the fudamental flaw to jehovahs witness , is belief in the bible as gods word only the second being following that through an organistation .if the bible is not gods word then all religions who follow it are flawed.. of course what other people choose to think or follow is none of my buisness and i fully respect other peoples right to believe what they want, but if this world is to progress and mankind to improve in thier dealings with one another then we can not all go round living in our own little fantasy worlds , we must be brutal with ourselves in checking why we believe the things we do and trying to align our minds with reality not fantasy.. this apllies to all aspects of our lives.but if we are not honest or open minded and reasonable enough to see there are some massive problems to the bibles authenticity and divine declerations how will we be able to make reasonable decisions in other areas of our lives?
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JWinSF
I'll respond from my personal experience in the San Francisco Bay Area. I started a support group for Gay/Lesbian ex-JWs in March 1994 and also have attended another support group based in Marin County [just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco]. The later started in July 1994 and is not gay focused but is open to all. In the years of the gay group, I never came in contact with any who went to other Christian born-again religions. Of course, that's not really too surprising as most born-agains are definitely anti-gay. I say most, because Tammy Faye Baker [a very misunderstood woman after I saw the documentary "The Eyes of Tammy Faye" --- highly recommended] is born again but not homophobic.
However, what was interesting was the Marin Group. Again, in the years that I have attended, I ran into only two individuals who'd gone into other fundamentalist religions. And, they were still just like JWs, trying to push their religious viewpoints and condemning the group for even welcoming gays. Needless to say, they didn't return since one of the primary ground rules of the group was no religious discussion.
Of course, the San Francisco Bay Area is a liberal-minded area for the most part. Still, coming from the straight-jacketed JW religion, it was refreshing that most did not opt for other fundamentalist groups. The Central Valley [areas like Modesto, Fresno, much more conservative], however, I suspect would have a higher percentage of ex-JWs going over to born-again based fundamentalist religions.
John W Wirtanen
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Ever think of going back undercover?
by jws inwas watching a new tv show called "do over" where a grown man goes back in time and is a high school student again, with all of his adult knowledge.
the premise has often come to my mind.
what would i have done if i knew then what i know now?
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JWinSF
I personally wouldn't want to go "the whole mile" in going back. However, a few years ago I had gone to my home Congregation for the Memorial. I wanted to prove to myself that I could walk in without feeling condemned and wanted to show others that far from my life falling apart, I was actually doing quite well. When I first entered, only one person, a dear Sister, recognized me. I'd lost a lot of weight through good eating habits and exercise. My facial appearance had really changed since my bone structure became much more visible. She'd recognized me because I saw her after I'd lost the weight and just before I sent in my letter of disassociation. There were some non-baptized friends of mine present, including her grandson, whom I could talk with [they were there only because of their JW family]. But, of course my voice hadn't changed. So, by speaking in a normal voice, people around me quickly recognized who I was. It was kind of fun, talking out loud with my friends about "worldly" things knowing that the JWs within ear-shot couldn't respond! I still remember how you could've heard a pin drop when my friend asked me if I'd gone to some clubs that he'd been to and I responded "No, I haven't been to those. I pretty much go to the gay clubs." A sister was sitting several rows ahead of us and turned with an "if looks could kill" glowering stare. I smiled broadly to her to show that her actions had no affect on me. This was the same sister who'd had three children from different mates, always prior to marriage with resulting disfellowshippings and the revolving door reinstatements. Her current husband [I think it was her fourth], whom my niece really had liked, looked like the weight of the world was resting on him. He was unshaven, dressed in casual slacks and a plaid shirt, and looked very depressed. All that from a Brother who only 5 years earlier was an up-and-coming JW, dressed and groomed squeaky-clean.
A friend of mine had also gone to the same year's Memorial, but to a Congregation that he'd never been part of. When we had recounted our experiences, 6 others from a local ex-JW support group wanted to do the same at the following year's Memorial. So, my friend and I went with them for support. Eight of us arrived at varied times at the Kingdom Hall. There were 4 men, 4 women, 4 of us were straight, 4 of us were gay. Some of us had drifted away, some had been disfellowshipped, and some had disassociated. The 6 went primarily for closure, that is, to close the door behind. We sat in various places in the Kingdom Hall. Boring, boring, boring Memorial Talk. Three of our group partook of the emblems, some talked with JWs afterwards. All in all, it was a hoot that we had successfully infiltrated and that they hadn't a clue. So, yes, it can easily be done. The JWs want people who've left to feel self-condemned and if they ever attend, to do so basically with a heads-down, "tail between the legs" type approach. If you walk in with a confident attitude and don't buy into their BS, you can successfully carry it off.
But, for me, to go back for a study, jeesh, I wouldn't want to submit myself to the mind-numbing torture.
John W Wirtanen
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10
Donahue Comments on Jws
by Kenneson inhow many of you watched donahue wed. night?
his program revolved around separation of church and state.
there were discussions on the ten commandment issue in alabama, prayer at graduation exercises, the use of the word god in the pledge, etc.
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JWinSF
Yes I saw it. I believe that he [or some other TV personality] brought this up in another recent show. As for me, regardless of the motivation behind the JWs taking it to the highest court, the fact remains that the JWs were instrumental in getting one of the USA's most vital freedoms legally recognized.
Do the JWs prevent other freedoms for their members? Obviously, yes. But, in that regard, other religious organizations also do the same. Another religion that is very much in line with similar control tactics is the Mormons.
Although this court case was fought so that the JWs would have freedom of expression to not perform the Pledge of Allegiance and the flag salute, the end result is that everyone has benefitted. And, as far as that goes, just about any court case is the same: One person or organization pursues what is right for them in the courts and while they at the time were most likely thinking only of themselves, the end result is a benefit to society as a whole.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no supporter of the JWs, having DAd in 1994. But, I believe that painting anything that they do as being self-servient is a black and white approach. In fact, there are many other precious freedoms that we now take for granted that were won by the JWs in their pursuit of freedom of religious expression. Whatever the motivation behind their actions, we presently benefit by them whether one wants to admit it or not.
And, as a side point, Jerry Falwell in his part on the show came across as his usual blithering idiot, self-righteous self. If it came to a choice of having the Jerry Falwells or the JWs as next door neighbors, I'd chose the JWs without question. Again, I'm not one that would ever recommend subjecting oneself to the JW cult-like controls, but in my eyes they are the lesser of two evils.
John W Wirtanen
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JWinSF
With all due respect, how many people when active JW's turned in their time and "inflated" their hours so as to appear more spiritual or righteous? I think just about all of us did it. So, it goes without saying that these numbers are inflated.
I guess I must've been one of the lone idiots in my congregations as I always reported the actual hours in the field. I thought that if I didn't, it could affect the Congregations' having Jehovah's spirit. But, that was because I believed in the first place that it was "The Truth" and that it did indeed have the Supreme Being's blessing. Oh what a difference "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom" make!
John W Wirtanen
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26
AIDS HIV
by ballistic insome subjects seem to re-appear almost on a daily basis.
noticeable by it's absense has been the subject of aids.
i think possibly this doesn't get discussed here becuase it is one of the few hot topics which goes in favour of the witnesses.
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JWinSF
"They claim that their stand on promiscuity, homosexuality, drug taking and blood transfusions makes them practically 'immune' to the disease."
Wrong, wrong, wrong:
Promiscuity does not in itself cause the spread of HIV which can eventually turn into AIDS. Unprotected sex is what transmits it. There is the risk of a condom breaking that could open one to transmission. But, infection can only then happen if one of those involved is HIV positive. One cannot contract HIV from another person if the other person is HIV negative.
Homosexuality does not in itself cause the spread of HIV as long as those engaged in sexual activities do so in a protected manner. For example, one of my closest friends who's a gay ex-JW and has been actively sexual since the early 80s is still HIV negative. In addition, he had one long-term monogamous relationship with an HIV positive man who died and is in another long-term relationship with his current partner who's HIV positive. My friend still remains HIV negative due to his taking the appropriate precautions of safer sex. I myself am gay and have been sexually active --- at one point very much so, currently only occasionally active --- and am still HIV negative. Also, keep in mind that HIV first exploded on the scene among African black straight people, not gays.
Drug taking does not in itself cause the spread of HIV. The taking of intravenous drugs using needles that have been used by other HIV positive people causes the spread of HIV.
Blood transfusions does not in itself cause the spread of HIV. It did in the early period of the disease. That was largely due to the irresponsible behavior of blood banks not taking measures to make the blood supply safer after there was ample evidence that blood could pass the virus. For a better understanding of the subject read the book or the movie made on the book "And the Band Played On."
John W Wirtanen
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JWinSF
Born into a family with an inactive JW mother and non-JW father - 9/48
Baptized at age 22 - 1/71
Disassociated at age 45 - 3/94
So, as far as being totally "in" the JWs, 23 years, but counting my exposure of 22 years to them through my inactive mother and very active uncle, there were more JW practices than non-JW practices in my childhood and early adult years.
So, I guess you could say I was essentially a JW for 45 years.