Posts by jws

22

After Silentlambs, What Will Be The Next Issue?

by minimus in

jw
friends

now the silentlambs has his own discussion board and will no longer be posting here, what will be the next issue that we will be involved in?

will it be a new scandal?

a doctrinal matter?

jws

Dancing red M&M's??? I thought that was the 7-UP red dot that they used in advertising a few years ago, not an M&M.

Minimus?

Interesting point about the lack of theology discussions. I remember other boards that got so deep into it and that's why I like this one because it's a lot lighter and a lot more focused on personal experiences. Is that because of the different forum for that sort of thing or have JWs obeyed their master and given up on trying to fight apostates on-line?

Interesting point though. I always thought, when reading those debates, that if some JWs were looking on, the back-and-forth gave them hope that their point-of-view had some merit. Now there's pretty much one-side and any curious JWs looking on see only that side. I would expect that may lead to a much greater decline in JW numbers!!!

Edited by - jws on 31 October 2002 12:8:42

10

Mum guilty of 'Toilet Drowning' murder of newborn.

by nicolaou in

i first posted this article on another site (i feel so dirty) where i was totally lambasted for my point of view.

this time i'm going to keep silent and listen to the rest of you.

just one question; how many victims are there?.

jws

If she didn't know she was pregnant, and then compound that with the fact that she was being treated for depression, it wouldn't surprise me that this woman had an episode of postpartum psychosis.

I thought she basically gave birth into the toilet and left it there.

Forgive me for being ignorant, but wouldn't postpartum psychosis be "post" partum? In other words, some time after the delivery? Now if she gave birth, then took the baby over to the toilet and drown it, that's a little different and I could see how that might be considered afterwards.

8

Quotes on Wedding Rings (Are they Pagan)?

by Beans in

hello brothers and sisters:.

let us take a brief moment to review how the watchtower feels about the exchange of wedding rings!.

beans.

jws

Thanks for the link. That's one thing I often wondered about. JWs have a laundry list of things they don't want you to do because of some vague pagan origin - almost anything involved in any sort of tradition. Even though nobody probably ever thinks of or even has a clue as to the origins of most traditions. For example, how many people know the symbolism of using an evergreen tree as a Christmas tree? If they don't know, then are they guilty of practicing paganism?

I often thought there must be things JWs do approve of that must also have a "pagan" origin. Things that I could argue back to show that they are employing a double-standard.

I thought I'd find an answer in weddings. For the most part, JWs follow tradition with weddings. And when they follow tradition, they are very much in danger of violating their own rules on things to avoid. I suspected the wedding ring might be one such thing.

Although these quotes give the JW point of view, it offers little documentation as to the "pagan" origins, even trying to say nobody knows. The quote of the Catholic article calling them pagan is about as close as it gets.

Does anybody have evidence of such common JW practices to prove they are of pagan origins? Maybe the bride wearing white too? I also thought about the days of the week. Saturday, for instance, comes from the god Saturn, right? Yet Saturday is typically door-knocking day. Hey, think I can get them to stop going door-knocking on Saturdays by telling them that this would honor a false god?

10

The Value of Pi: Proof the Bible Is Not From God?

by Skeptic in

the bible and the value of pi

introduction

the url for the page on my website (with working links!

jws

1 Kings 7:23-24
He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

I read about this years ago in a book on pi. While I would joke with people about this "proving the Bible wrong" to get a reaction, I think there's plenty of room for a plausible explaination.

The verse seems to speak of the width around (circumference) being measured. It talks about a "line of 30 cubits" being used to measure it around. I would assume this is the starting point. This is what was measured. Whether the diameter (from rim to rim) was actually measured r merely calculated is uncertain. To start with diameter and multiply would then give you a false conclusion, especially when rounding is no-doubt involved.

As stated, 30/pi = 9.549, which rounds up to 10. I don't recall seeing decimal points being used in the Bible, so numbers would probably be rounded off.

While 9.549 rounds up to 10, it's real close to the half-way point between 9 and 10. Let's say the object was a little larger than 30 in circumference. Let's say 30 1/3, that makes the diameter 9.655 (about 9 2/3). 30 1/3 could easily be rounded down to 30 and 9 2/3 is now a lot closer to 10 and could easily be rounded up.

Did the ancients even round up or down the way we do? That is, .5 or above, round up and below .5, round down? Or was everything above a whole number rounded up? Or down?

Was the object really a perfect circle? If slightly oval, it could appear circular, but actually measure slightly smaller across at some points than others. We are talking about what? Approx. 15 feet across. That's a large circle. Although I could be biased and view all ancient civilizations as primitive, I'm not sure they had the means to make a perfect circular bowl (or whatever a "sea" is) of that size. I would think it's very possible it came out somewhat oval.

While I do believe that the Bible has its inconsistencies, I think this is far from a smoking gun.

13

UK Service report

by dmouse in

jw
friends

.

from nov km - report for july 2002:.

and because i'm very much a visual learner i've incorporated this into my graph showing uk publisher figures for the past few years, there does seem still to be a downward trend:.

jws

I'm not sure blondie, but as you can see a huge peak is normal for August in the UK too.

Doesn't the new service year start in September? Could the August peak be pioneers trying to get all of their hours in before then end of the year?

I don't know about a downward trend. With the exception of July, it seems they've stayed above or about equal to last year.

24

was this place scary the first time?

by jurs in

here and there a newbie will post and its obvious that they think that this site is for jw's and not ex's.

did any of you ever come across an apostate site on accident?

what about the first time you came here?

jws

There was no WWW when I became "apostate". I wish there was. There is so much information available now. I had been lucky to stumble upon a lead to further information when I ordered COC and other pamphlets. That was a big step.

Since the WWW, I've seen other JW boards, but I like the way this one is organized, keeping topics seperated, not one big list that takes forever to load. I also like the seperation of discussion topics. Let the people who want to debate scriptures back and forth go to that area. And I like the anonymity because I do have JW family.

I also like the people on this board. This board stays relatively out of the serious doctrinal discussions and shares personal experiences. I am thrilled to hear so many experiences and to know that my feelings weren't unique to me. I now wonder whether all the JWs I knew growing up were all thinking the same things I were.

This board is very comfortable and very easy to fit right in.

Although I've never met any of you and don't agree with all of your viewpoints, I find you all fit the description of "brothers and sisters" better than any of the JWs I ever knew.

55

WTS Secret Police

by Pleasuredome in

heres a story of what happened to me at a district convention this year.. an unbaptised publisher and i travelled to wolverhampton district convention in england.

this wasnt our district but id been on holiday and had missed my own district convention (how unspiritual of me).

so me and this friend decided to go to this convention and was also hoping to meet a friend there.. on the saturday morning we were delayed in traffic and we eventually arrived at 11.30am, paid our 3 for parking (i wonder if they had the use of car parks for free?

jws

Interesting stuff. I thought I remember people volunteering to be "attendants" here in the US. They would sort of sweep the hallways to make sure people weren't loitering or kids running around making too much noise. The kind who would tell you to find your seat if they saw you wandering around for too long.

But this black-dot group sonds like a whole new level of attendant, keeping an eye on everyone.

Often thought of going back to a district convention for the hell of it, see if I could stand it. They aren't exactly open about locations and dates (more paranoia).

Even though I still attended several years after the introduction of the black Bible, I still have an unplaced (mint condition) green Bible. Thought I could bring that. Maybe even find the old pink songbook on ebay too.

I remember some warning about guys going to assemblies to pick up JW women who obviously weren't JWs since they still had green bibles. So I always thought it would be a hoot to try to blend in with one.

23

Double Life

by restorebeauty in

jw
friends

.

when a witness is leading a double life, are they really leaning toward not believing in the "truth" and just staying in for family and friends sake or do they really believe it is the "truth" but just want to have a little fun?.

i have a friend who says he is "in" just because he goes to meetings of sundays, however during the week you would not believe it if he told you he was a witness.. just curious..

jws

I believe it's the "whistling past the graveyard" mentality. I'll do my thing away from the KH, but still go just in case the big A is coming.

Maybe for some. According to the official teaching, this is not the case. You can't just "go through the motions" to get saved at Armageddon.

When I was leading a "double-life", I believed that if the "big A" came, I would not be saved. I had no illusions that going to the KH alone would save me. But, perhaps, by going, I wouldn't drift farther away and eventually I might eventually get more spiritual. Maybe eventually my "worldly" needs would fade and eventually I might fit into organizational life.

29

Signs of JW decline

by larc in

jw
friends

the decline of the jws has been discussed before in bits and pieces.

i thought i would summarize some of the "signs of the times".

1. there is been no growth in 24 internet connected countries.

jws

I wonder if the attempt to contact inactive ones is a desperate attempt to make the numbers look better (See the post on the Elder's meeting). In Jan-Mar (if they haven't already started) there's a push to contact inactive ones and offer studies. Even if they've been inactive 20-30 years, they are going to come looking for you.

The thinking may be that they at one time were JWs. Pulling them back in, theoretically, may take less effort than trying to find somebody interested in the door-to-door work and convert them.

However, if this action results in more dissassociations from people who are forced to make a decision one-way-or-the-other and they choose to reject them, this may drive down memorial attendance, which is another number they parade around. One has to believe that at least some of the inactive ones (probably the more recently inactive) will at least come to the memorial. If they are DA'ed, I'd say that's a lot less likely.

26

Do You Ever Miss It?

by pettygrudger in

jw
friends

i was in a hormonal state the last couple of days, feeling a little melancholy.....sometimes when i feel like this, i miss being a jw.

don't get me wrong, i have not intention of ever going back.

i've come to realize what i miss is the naivety, the black & white thinking, allowing the organization to pretty much guide my every thought.

jws

Oddly enough, I miss the excitement of leading a double-life. Of flirting with trouble, while still being an upstanding JW. It was like being a spy. Continually being aware of who knew what, what your exposure was, getting your stories straight, and seeing what you could get away with. The duality was lots of fun. It was like a role-playing game.

Somehow, now that I have the freedom to choose, it's not as fun. Celebrating your birthday when you can just doesn't have the same excitement.