Posts by ABibleStudent

42

What did Jesus really mean, when he said he had made his Father's name known?

by Faithful Witness in

i am preparing for my meeting this friday with miss k. we are reviewing the bible teach book, and she is looking forward to "showing me some things about the divine name.

" i don't know what she might pull out of her hat this time... but that section of the teach book is so completely assanine, i don't even know what to say.

) what did jesus mean when he said that to his father?.

ABibleStudent

NIV MT 23:23-24

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Hi Faithful Witness, As you wrote about in your post, your solution to overcome Miss K's tactics is to read scriptures around her cherry-picked verses to understand the context of those verses. It would slow her down and therefore keep her off-balanced, and allow you to ask simple questions to hopefully reach her authentic persona. If she protests about you wanting to understand scriptures in context, you could recite MT 23:23-24 to her or Acts 17:11. Also, if you read MT 23 from Steve Hassan's perspective about dangerous cults, it almost reads like a description of dangerous cults.

Unfortunately Miss K probably is on a convention high this week and is full of WTBTS programming, so I would cancel meeting with her for several weeks. It usually takes several weeks for a JW's authentic persona to re-assert itself after a DC or assembly.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

P.S. - I hope that you had a great vacation on the island.

9

I just noticed this tactic

by problemaddict in

in reading terrys latest post, if made me think of something that exists and many of us have experienced but i have not really put into a logical thoughts process before.

in terrys 4 facts everyone should know about jw's, the second one referrs to the walsh trial where unity is said to be more important than truth, in no uncertain terms.. this made me think about how one would bring up this fact.

my mind wandered to the beginning of my fade, when inevitably, many of us open up our mouths and say too much.

ABibleStudent

Hi problemaddict, Have you asked JWs questions like Billy the Ex-Bethelite did in exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed.

How do you feel that "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JWs would respond to you saying, "Someone told me that in the Walsh trail the president of the WTBTS said . . . I want to disprove it, but I do not know how to. How would you independently research something like buying a car/TV/house? . . . How would you research this?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

58

Does WT use intellectual intimidation in publications?

by KateWild in

when i first learned ttatt, i read loads all at once and tried to absorb everything.

then i slowed down evaluated my priorities and took one step at time.

now my kids know ttatt and i have set some goals in life, i am ready to take on my next project in my deprogramming.. intellectual intimidation.

ABibleStudent

Hi KateWild, Is Steve Hassan's "unhealth inluence" the same as intellectual intimidation? According to Steve Hassan, unhealth influence is used to unduly influence people. How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01)

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

24

GUILT TRIPS AND EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL!!!

by DATA-DOG in

all hell has broken loose at my house!

the wife is pissed [ i did not turn in the "voluntary tithe" slip .

if she doesn't go, then she cannot do x event tomorrow.

ABibleStudent

Hi DATA-DOG, I'm sorry for your wife's cognitive dissonance and its affect on you and your child.

Have you read The Psychology of Guilt Overcoming Types of Guilt? I prefer recommending Steve Hassan's vidoes and methods on www.freedomofmind.com and books, but maybe the aforementioned webpage might help you, because it does not use the word cult.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

23

I dont think we should past judgement on people who post here for the first time

by smiddy in

jw
friends

just saying , my 2 cents worth .

if they have an agenda it will be revealed in a short time , let them play it out .. however , some genuine first posters can be put off by somebody jumping the gun and attacking them .. please give the first posters time to get to know this site.. smiddy.

ABibleStudent

Agree!

It is better to be respectful and friendly to everyone and ask clarifying questions if suspicious of another's motives, rather than being disrespectful. If this is suppose to be a support forum, then IMHO labeling posters as trolls, writing B.S., or lurkers is counter-productive. Let other readers make up their own minds about what a poster is or is not without labeling them, as a JW would do to protect their "Spirituality" (status in the WTBTS).

I would feel badly if my actions caused a "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) JW to abandon their independent research and run back to the WTBTS.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

171

New to The Jehovahs Witness Faith and need some help

by jnjburkett in

jw
friends

hello there i am new to the faith and have been studying for about a month.

i am very excited and hungry for the truth and have not missed a meeting or study since the memorial.

we do about 2 bible studies a week.

ABibleStudent

Welcome jnjburkett, As long as you continue your Bible Studies (indoctrination sessions), your JW friends will continue to associate with you. If you start to ask too many difficult questions of them, your JW bible conductor and JW friends will either stop visiting with you or start to use unhealthy influence techniques to unduly influence you. If you want unconditional friendships, go meet non-JWs. The WTBTS indoctinates JWs to only conditionally love people, including their family members.

Before continuing your Bible Studies (indoctrination sessions) with a JW, independently research the WTBTS as much as you can by visiting reputable websites like www.jwfacts.com and www.freedomodmind.com. After you are baptized a JW, you will be considered "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) if you start to independently research the WTBTS, which is an example of an unhealthy influence technique that the WTBTS teaches JWs.

If you want to learn more about unhealth influence techniques or more about Steve Hassan's BITE model, please watch the following three short videos by Steve Hassan: How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01), The BITE Model (Behavior Information Thought Emotion) (5:03), Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23).

I was once a friend to a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW who encouraged me to accept a bible study with an elder and later with a brother. She stopped seeing me, I beleive, because I started asking too many difficult questions from the study conductors.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath

by Found Sheep in

nice guy i worked with him for about a year.

he is mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... he needs to come clean i think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so i don't have the upper hand?

is there a coc for mormons?

ABibleStudent

Hi Found Sheep, Have you thought about talking about your JW experience with him? According to Steve Hassan a good way to help a member of a dangerous cult realise that they are in a dangerous cult is to talk about the characteristics of another dangerous cult (i.e., shunning, thought-stopping platitudes, etc.).

You can also read information about applying the BITE Model to Mormons on the freedomofmind website: https://freedomofmind.com//Info/infoDet.php?id=370 .

Have you asked him whether he has read one of Steve Hassan's books or visited his website www.freedomofmind.com? His reaction might be a good segue into how the WTBTS warns JWs to only believe in the WTBTS's propaganda.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

16

Can a marriage between a catholic and a jw work?

by roberto avon in

this topic was posted yesterday on an italian fb page.

i replied that my personal experience was very positive.

of course i have to admit that my.

ABibleStudent

Only if a JW is "Spiritually Weak" (still thinking) and loves their spouse more than the WTBTS.

Compromise and communiation are very important in a marriage. Being a JW married to a non-JW makes it more of a challange for both, espeically if the JW's family is considered "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) and either shuns the JW or constantly pressures them.

I know of a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW who wanted to date me, but wouldn't only because I was a non-JW and her family would shun her if she did. Other than me being a non-JW, we shared many common interests and beliefs.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

48

Strike 3 for the elderette and me! (???) I never heard a JW talk SO much about Jesus!

by Faithful Witness in

miss k and her friend miss w arrived promptly today.

our scheduled topic of discussion: jesus' claim to be "the way, the truth and the life..." john 14:6 since she was basing this topic choice on the fact that i had quoted that verse, i'm not sure why... she spent what seemed like a very long time, hopping through scriptures that all said that jesus was the truth, the way, or the life.

ok, so we agreed... i kept waiting for her to get to a point, or sway from this principle.. of course, she summed up with scriptures that show how jesus submits to the father, and what does that mean we should do?

ABibleStudent

Faithful Witness - Robert: She asked me if I wanted to continue, and I said I had to think about it. I told her I have been tossing it around in my mind, since the only in-depth perspective I have taken on "the bible" was using that guide published by the Watchtower. I feel that I need a better bible foundation, before I can really discuss things with her fairly. Right now, we have left it open-ended. I told her I would get back to her, and she said she'd check with me later in the week.

HI Faithful Witness, You have been given a lot of great advice how to trip up Miss K and Miss W and increase their cognitive disonnance.

Unless you are able to convince Miss K (and Miss W) of not using unhealthy influence tactics (i.e., switching topics and saying derogatory things about your thinking) or empowering their authentic persona, IMHO continueing to meet with Miss K and Miss W will only increase your frustrations. Since Miss K and Miss W have an agenda to indoctrinate you, you need to take control away from them to keep them off balance.

IMHO limit your meetings preferably to 60 minutes and never to exceed 90 minutes, do not use the "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" book, and confront them on using unhealthy influence techniques. If you can convince them that they are using unhealthy influence techniques, that it is adversely affecting you from studying the Bible with them, and it is making you question what are their intentions in studying the Bible with you, it may throw them off balance and empower their authentic personas.

Faithful Witness - Blondie: Thanks for those references! Great points. I am learning a lot from this lady, and yesterday she told me she is enjoying the challenge, and the chance to defend her beliefs.

FYI the elder who conducted a Bible Study with me also used a similar phrase about how he felt strenghtened by my challenging his belief in an interpretation of a bible scripture. At the time I thought it was strange that the elder would say this to me, because I did not say anything that would challange his belief in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, or God. May be an exJW can explain if the WTBTS teaches JWs to say this to bible students as a control technique. If a JWs tells me that phrase again, I plan on asking them, "Did I challenge your belief in the Watchtower and its leaders, or in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and God?"

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

61

CO is chasing me . Meeting him tomorrow.

by Ancientofdays in

this week is the "special week", co is back.. he phone called me this morning asking to meet together.. i replied "i don't refuse people who want talking to me, but my condition is that you must be alone, and we meet in public space.".

he agreed and we will meet tomorrow in a cafe.. .

this week he already met with my wife in the kh, and he told her "i believe your housband is apostate !!

ABibleStudent

Hi Ancientofdays, My suggestions would be to thank him for his concern. Ask him not to talk with your wife without you being present because you are the head of your household. Tell him not to contact you again. You will call him when you want to talk with him. Don''t say anything about how you feel or think.

You might ask him if the WTBTS pays for clergy insurance for him or does he pay for it himself encase he gets sued.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert