Posts by ABibleStudent

6

Watchtower shunning of disfellowshipped children -- an email campaign tool

by FatFreek 2005 in

hi all,.

sometimes a picture tells it all -- how very cruel corporate policy can be.

as always, right click on image for a menu of choices.

ABibleStudent

Could parents be prosecuted for shunning their children under the age of 18? Have JW parents shunned children under the age of 18?

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

39

A reality test for Jehovah's Witnesses that really seems to work

by Terry in

i admit to a fondness for "factoids".

little snippets of information.

statistics.

ABibleStudent

Great thought Terry and good come back Lore. I look forward to the hypothetical JW response and counter punch.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

51

Will the Governing Body Ever Make a Big Enough Mistake?

by What Now? in

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i am not scared of armageddon anymore.

ABibleStudent

Hi (((((((What Now?))))))), Ditto what leavingwt and cedars said. You and your husband should start living your lives for yourselves and your children. If your JW parents and friends want to continue to waste their lives slaving for the WTBTS, then that is their choice. If you want to help them, you can always send them emails/notes of you and your family having a fantastic time living and enjoying life.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

24

Need help showing a family member the real truth behind the Society

by screwface in

hey everybody im pretty new on this site, but i need help.i just got into a 30 minute debate about religion, jehovah's witnesses mostly.

now i was in the trooth for 20 years, but ive been dissed twice.

the last time i was dissed for five years.

ABibleStudent

Welcome screwface to JWN and I am sorry about your dilema with your family. Have you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves), visited Steve Hassan's website (www.freedomofmind.com), read books by other psychologists about cults, read Raymond Franz's books (i.e., Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom) about the WTBTS, and read other books about the WTBTS by former JWs? Realistically your only option is to live your life to the fulliest and send emails/notes to your family with plenty of pictures of you having fun and occasionally planting a seed of doubt. To debate doctrine with JWs would only make them raise their shields and shun you. Good-luck!!

If you want to take a chance on getting shunned by your JW family, you can also send anonymous emails to your JW family like I wrote about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/211893/1/Youe28099ve-Got-Mail-TM, you can write Letters to Editors like I wrote about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/218368/3/The-Ideas-Thread-all-are-welcome, and write to politicians to prevent cults like the WTBTS from being exempt from paying income taxes or receiving government assistance like I wrote about in http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/politics/215126/1/Ive-Been-Sooo-Bad-Hopefully-Something-Good-will-Happen.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

37

What would you do if your JW spouse did...?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

okay, i don't mean to rant but i am not sure where to turn.

the issues that i am having with my wife are not related to her being a jw but it does make me think of other situations where the religion is credited for the jw spouse's exceptional behavior (even when it has nothing to do with the religion).. my wife has her heart set on going to disney this year, but she has no real plan on saving the money to go.

in addition to this, she needs have some money to replace her lost income over the summer when she takes her internship to get her teacher's license.

ABibleStudent

garyneal - I've considered counseling, in fact I have suggested it over and over. To no avail. I may consider it alone, but I really think it would be more beneficial if we both went. I'm not holding my breath.

Hi garyneal. My ex-wife did not want to go to counseling either. I should have gone by myself, because maybe a counselor could have helped me to communicate better with my ex-wife. You could also read self-help books and even read them to your wife, such as Getting the Love that You Want: A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix (www.gettingtheloveyouwant.com ) or Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus by John Grey. Your wife seems to have some incompatibility issues with your values, which could cause your family a lot of problems in the future. Good-luck!!

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

17

Some thoughts on the WTBS and money

by JeffT in

jw
friends

it is a common meme on this board that the leadership of the wtbs is driven by financial considerations.

as my may know, i have been working in financial management, particularly involving real estate for a number of years.

i've been thinking about the society's finances and i've reached a conclusion, either they are not motivated by money, or they've done a piss poor job of pulling it in.

ABibleStudent

According to the NNCF's ads "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste", the WTBTS proves this everyday. The WTBTS could do a lot of things more efficiently and effectively, but the WTBTS is a cult so there is no incentive for the leadership to change and lighten the burdens of the R&F. A busy JW doesn't have time to think and reflect. Also, the leadership is trapped in its own historical doctrines from Russell and Rutherford being litigous to printing literature on paper instead of promoting the internet to JWs to access their literature on-line.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

37

What would you do if your JW spouse did...?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

okay, i don't mean to rant but i am not sure where to turn.

the issues that i am having with my wife are not related to her being a jw but it does make me think of other situations where the religion is credited for the jw spouse's exceptional behavior (even when it has nothing to do with the religion).. my wife has her heart set on going to disney this year, but she has no real plan on saving the money to go.

in addition to this, she needs have some money to replace her lost income over the summer when she takes her internship to get her teacher's license.

ABibleStudent

Hi garyneal, it sounds like you and your wife should go to marriage counseling or at least read read some books on the subject. Marriage counseling may help you getting in touch with your wife's authentic persona. Disagreements about money are the number one cause of divorce in the USA.

Too bad that you cannot use the headship card with your wife about money matters, because you are more realistic than your wife, who is being very emotional and fiscally irresponsible.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

10

Why do they keep coming???

by OneDayillBeFree in

jw
friends

why do studies and people non religious and religous keep coming back to the meetings?

i get the whole brain washing thing and that may very well be the most logical answer but i don't know.

i know it's not because they found the truth or anything but being a born in and mentally out its just one of those lingering thoughts that pop up every meeting i go to.... i mean take the speaker for today.

ABibleStudent

Mind control, wanting to believe in something, wanting any kind of friendship, fear of losing family and friends, habit, etc. are all possible answers as to why JWs attend meetings. What I would like to know is how to show JWs what the WTBTS really teaches so that they can awaken.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

67

Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?

by simon17 in

first time i got a chance to read his book, "combatting cult mind control" and was interested to see if jw's fell into the cult mold.

my opinion after carefully reading and having left the witnesses after almost 30 years is... no, they don't.

however, i would add that they wish they were but are simply too big and unwieldy to really pull it off.

ABibleStudent

simon17 - . . . I would agree the WTBTS is a controlling organization, playing with guilt and fear techniques. I guess what I was after is that this particular book is often recommended as a great thing to get Wtinesses to read if possible because it doesnt ever mention JWs. . . .

Hi simon17. I have personally recommended reading Steve Hassan's books Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves to many exJWs or awakened JWs to enable them to improve their communication with active JWs, who blindly follow the WTBTS, and not to convince active JWs that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult. I will recommend to "Worldly" people to read Steve Hassan's books to enable them to communicate with active JWs and to help "Wordly" people to understand why I (and Steve Hassan and many others) classify the WTBTS as a dangerous cult. To me it would be pointless to even try to convince active JWs that they belong to a dangerous cult, because JWs would not be able to see that the 10 themes that universally apply to organizations that use mind control are used by the WTBTS. Active JWs only believe what the WTBTS tells them and nothing else.

Steve Hassan's books are just two tools that can be used to help exJWs and awakened JWs to free the minds of JWs so that they can regain their authentic personalities. There are many other tools that can also be used. Unfortunately, I do not know of a single silver bullet to show or tell a JW to awaken them. If that silver bullet does exist, please tell me, because I'm sure that many other exJWs would love to know what it is.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

67

Read S. Hassan's Book: Do JW's really fit the cult mold?

by simon17 in

first time i got a chance to read his book, "combatting cult mind control" and was interested to see if jw's fell into the cult mold.

my opinion after carefully reading and having left the witnesses after almost 30 years is... no, they don't.

however, i would add that they wish they were but are simply too big and unwieldy to really pull it off.

ABibleStudent

Hi simon17, why did you focus on the techniques used to control people instead of the BITE control model and the universal themes that organizations that use mind control have in common that are described in Combatting Cult Mind Control?

I agree with OnTheWayOut and other posters that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult. The WTBTS just uses different techniques than the Unification Church to indoctrinate people into being JWs. The way that JWs conduct bible studies is a prime example of indoctrination (subtle but effective). If a bible study does not progress as planned in 6 months or less, the JW will drop the bible study in a heart beat.

Would you agree that the WTBTS uses mind control by evaluating the practises of the WTBTS with the 10 universal themes of organizations that use mind control? If the WTBTS uses mind control and uses the BITE control model to control the behavior, information, thoughts, and emotios of its members, how can you believe that the WTBTS is not a dangerous cult?

It took me awhile to realize that the WTBTS is a dangerous cult and not a religion. After reading Combatting Cult Mind Control, it was painfully obvious to me what the WTBTS is.

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Steve Hassan describes the following universal themes that organizations that use mind control have in common:
1) The Doctrine is reality – members are not allowed to disagree with the organization’s doctrines. The most effective doctrines are those “which are unverifiable and unevaluable” in the words of Eric Hoffer.
2) Reality is Black and White, Good versus Evil – there is no room for interpretation, deviation, and compromise.
3) Elitist Mentality – “members are made to feel part of an elite corps of mankind. This feeling of being special, of participating in the most important acts in human history with a vanguard of committed believers, is strong emotional glue to keep people sacrificing and working hard.”
4) Group Will over Individual Will – “The group comes first. Absolute obedience to superiors is one of the most universal themes in cults. Individuality is bad. Conformity is good.”
5) Strict Obedience: Modeling the Leader – new members are often encouraged to imitate people who they are paired with (i.e., how they dress, speak, behave) to effectively overcome their individuality.
6) Happiness through Good Performance – “One of the most attractive qualities of cult life is the sense of community that it fosters. The love seems to be unconditional and unlimited at first, and new members are swept away by a honeymoon of praise and attention. But after a few months, as the person becomes more enmeshed, the flattery and attention are tuned away toward newer recruits,. The cult member learns that love is not unconditional but depends on good performance.”
7) Manipulation through Fear and Guilt – members come to live within a narrow emotional band of fear, guilt, and shame. It is always the members fault for all problems.
8 ) Emotional Highs and Lows – members swing between the extreme happiness of experiencing the “truth” with superiors, and the crushing weight of guilt, fear, and shame for failing.
9) Changes in Time Orientation – how members interpret their past, present, and future are changed. A member’s past is rewritten to color everything dark. An organization creates a great sense of urgency for members to keep members extremely busy on daily tasks and to prevent them from thinking too much. As time-tables pass, the leaders will establish new time-tables to keep members busy.
10) No Way Out – there is never a legitimate reason for leaving an organization. Members are told that they must be weak, immoral, tempted, brainwashed by deprogrammers, pride, sin, etc.