Posts by Essan

20

New light what is it...cos I'm confused??

by Fractured~Mind in

ok this is the biggest problem i have ...well one of...and that's the governing body's stance on "new light".

to me its like a dimmer light , whatever subject you have the light on, starting with the lowest setting you can make out the basics.

when the dial is turned up slowly to the brightest setting, you then have the whole, complete,picture...but you don't have a whole new subject matter in front of you.. so i can understand them starting with the basics then later on slowly revealing more and more as it is revealed to them...but i dont understand starting with one idea and completely changing that idea over and over again.. and if the light is not that bright on a subject, isnt it common sense to keep your big trap shut until your sure or the light is brighter, so you don't stumble millions of people in the process??.

Essan

Yeah, the whole "new light" idea is bogus. The Society invokes it when they change their doctrines, sometimes back and forth, pretending it's God's doing.

It's interesting what the Watchtower had to say on this is Russell's time:

"If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from god must be like its author. a new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. new light never extinguishes older light, but adds to it. If you were lighting up a building containing seven gas jets you would not extinguish one every time you lighted another, but would add one light to another and they would be in harmony and thus give increase of light. So is it with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another." (Watchtower Feb. 1, 1881, Reprints p. 188)

Well, the Society then went on to have a long history of constantly "contradicting former truth" and "extinguishing older light", which according to this Watchtower is evidence that JW's must be following men and that their changeable literature is full of "human ideas", so they are condemned out of their own mouth (as is usually the case).

As you said, if they aren't 100% sure of their interpretations - which, after 100 years of getting things wrong, you'd think they'd learn some caution and humility - then they have no business claiming or implying that their present interpretation has been revealed by God nor of requiring that all JW's accept them as the truth without question.

Further, if you read the context of the Scripture from which they lift the notion of 'light' getting 'brighter and brighter' it doesn't even have anything to do with doctrine or gradual understanding. The Scripture is completely misused to try to excuse their constant errors and ever changing doctrine and to pretend it's all part of God's plan.

It's hogwash.

25

A Terry inspired post - Whose interpretation do you follow?

by donny in

terry had a great post the other day entitled " if the bible is so darned great---why don't people just read it?.

" yesterday someone knocked on my door and by the time i got there they had left and i found this postcard taped to the door.. the front has a picture of an open bible and the words "now is the time to know" below that is this statement: (bolding theirs).

"the bible is as relevant as ever to your life and family.

Essan

TheMadJW said: "What a Bizarre statement. Without the Bible (or someone who READ it), you would know nothing about them. Has Jesus and the Nameless Ghost-God appeared to you and taught you?

The Bible was written so that it would be relevant to people in all ages- and is only misunderstood because of false agendas and religious tradition."

You are conflating two different things - a record and a guide

The Bible records Jesus, but actually it's not the only record, there are many books from the same period as the Bible books which record Jesus and his teachings, yet aren't in the Bible. So yes, the Bible is a record about Jesus, but it's not the only one. Even if there were no such written records, an oral tradition could well have accurately preserved the basics of Jesus and his message. Or is God not capable of that?

Now as for being a spiritual 'guide', well, the Bible itself said that this would be the spirit, not a book. Your rather sarcastic statement regarding "Jesus and the Nameless Ghost-God appeared to you and taught you" is actually contradictory to countless Scriptures which said that this would be exactly the case for true Christians.

Your assumption that because it hasn't happened so far supposedly indicates that it won't or can't, is flawed. Perhaps JW's are not taught by the spirit because they have not accepted it as their teacher and have not accepted Jesus as their mediator - because they are too busy putting the Organization in their place and listening to "another good news" rather than the one Jesus taught.

As much as you praise a book as a sure 'guide', it hasn't done you much good, seeing as JWs don't actually follow the Bible's words on this matter of spiritual guidance and countless other things. Perhaps, without the guidance of "Jesus and a nameless ghost-God", a record is just a record upon which men project their own fantastical interpretations.

146

How the TRINITY covers up the murder of Jehovah

by Terry in

jehovah is one of the most colorful personalities in history!.

he is mighty, awe-inspiring, violent, whimsical, repenting of having even created man--yet, capable of bargaining with the likes of lot and stopping the literal-minded abram from stabbing his own isaac to death as a sacrifice.. jehovah flies into a rage and wipes out thousands in a heartbeat, sends she-bears to tear children apart, drowns millions of men, women, children and pregnant women in a worldwide flood---but, champions one family of 8.. this same super-deity walks in the garden of eden in the breezy part of the day, wrestles with jacob all night and can only manage to get away by crippling him!

jehovah leads the children of israel to freedom out of egypt and yet opens up the earth and swallows up many of the same people when moses delays returning from sinai and they slip into their old ways.. what a character!

Essan

If we are capable of being more merciful and more loving than the God of the OT - which I think most of us are - then that makes us more godlike that he, because 'God is love'. So I'm not prepared to worship someone who shows less Godlike love than I do. 'Jehovah' as portrayed in the OT is a petty, brutal small time desert deity and I have no time for him.

Now the God as reflected by Jesus... He's more my kind of guy. :)

34

The Faithful and Discreet WHAT?

by Cold Steel in

i'm sure this has been covered before, so please excuse me if it has.

my questions are:.

how do people know that they're part of the faithful and discreet slave class?how is seniority established?.

Essan

Debator said: "You have to be inspired of God to do prophecies! we have never claimed inspiration."

No you have to be inspired of God to give TRUE prophesies - you obviously don't have to be inspired to be a FALSE PROPHET.

The Society has DIRECTLY referred to the work they do as prophesy, and they certainly attempt to fill the role of a prophet and expect to be believed by the membership as if they were a prophet. There are so many Watchtower references to this that any JW who is aware of them and yet denies that they have set themselves in the place of a prophet - and have failed miserably - is simply being dishonest.

They try to have their cake and eat it. They claim to be God's sole channel of communication, they have made countless (failed) predictions, they have called their words and predictions "God's dates", "The Creators Promise" etc. They have claimed Jehovah is the editor of the Watchtower. They expect to be believed without question in every - ever changing - thing they say. Then, when their false prophesies fail, they pretend they didn't claim to be a prophet. Pure cynical doublespeak. The damning evidence is simply endless. That some JWs who are aware of this still allow themselves to be deceived by it is simply tragic.

60

Whats the weirdest thing a JW ever said to you?

by chukky 594 in

i remember a 'sister' coming up to me and telling me off for being on the atkins diet, as it was satanic and designed by satan.. chukky.

Essan

"Essan-That is the strangest thing I ever heard."

Yay! Surely I win some kind of prize? :)

60

Whats the weirdest thing a JW ever said to you?

by chukky 594 in

i remember a 'sister' coming up to me and telling me off for being on the atkins diet, as it was satanic and designed by satan.. chukky.

Essan

My former P.O. - Satan altered the genes of bees (etc) to give them stings, and sharks etc to give them huge sharp teeth (etc) because that's the kind of evil things powerful demons can do, and God would never have created them that way.

7

FDS topic- Bible Support

by AwSnap in

jw
friends

im searching and searching, but not finding what i need.

it is sown in corruption, it is raised up in incorruption.

44 it is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body.

Essan

Hi Awswap.

Which Scriptures? They have no scriptural basis for claiming the 144,00 is literal, they just insist it is. My opinion is that the JW position on all the above is entirely unscriptural and that their statements regarding the GB are just flim-flam. They claim that Jesus is the mediator for anointed Christians only and that the vast majority of JWs really only have any hope because they associate with these anointed Christians and obey what they claim (without scriptural justification) is the "representative" of the anointed, the 'Governing Body'.

It's all very silly and unscriptural.

55

THE "OTHER SHEEP" ARE NOT GENTILE CHRISTIANS, because...............

by Titus in

i don't want biblical answer, but from any watchtower publication.

has that question ever been answered in any watchtower publications?.

please, give me some references.. i expect answer from debator, alice, bane, scholar or any other active jehovah's witness.

Essan

@Djeggnog

What questions did I ask here that you thought to have been "largely irrelevant"?

Nearly all of them, including this one.

What do you think about this response to your non-question about me? Do you think it to be a straight answer to your non-question, a cloudy, perhaps an irrelevant counter question or a case of my using a bit of sleight of hand in order make things "hopelessly and needless convoluted"?

Yes. I think it's a complete waste of time. I wasn't talking to you and I'd like not to talk to you further, if that's OK. I don't mean to be rude in saying this, I'd just like you to plainly answer the OP's questions, rather than making distractions out of countless other issues. For that reason, I won't be responding to you further.

Let's see if a simple question - the OP's - can receive a straight, sound JW answer.

38

Bethelite at hall dedication, system may not last until "Deliverance Conv."

by daystar in

through various contacts, i heard this was said by a good bethelite at a local hall dedication.

(i won't quote what was said... i don't want to give away my source.).

plans are being made to attend the deliverance convention in july.

Essan

""the "end of this system" is so close.""

Wow, fool me once, shame on you, fool me several dozen times, then I'm a certified moron.

Aren't people tired of hearing the same BS? When does "Oh, it's so close! Sooooo close" start being meaningless to these people?

8

"THE EVIL SLAVE" exposes the Watchtower....Four Bible Student elders speak up !

by koolaid-man in

jw
friends

the largest schism in watchtower history involved the bible students in the 20's and 30's.

it was not so much that bible students "opposed" the work of the society, the issue was the bible students and the society were no longer in harmony doctrinally, the 3,000 or so who "dropped" out by 1918, eventually grew in the coming years, by 1930 seventy-five percent of the original bible students had abandoned the society.

the bible students or "the evil slave" as the jehovah's witnesses refer to them as, are now coming back to haunt the org.

Essan

It seems to me that the Bible Students are an infinitely less dangerous and controlling version of the JWs - or rather, I should say, the JWs are an infinitely more dangerous and controlling version of the Bible Students, seeing as the Witnesses are really a sect of the Bible Students rather than the other way around.

I'm not interested in either really, but the Bible Students have far more to recommend them compared to the JWs. It would be fantastic if somehow there was a mass exodus from the JWs to the Bible Students. They would be much better off.