when we were in we were often read that scripture and told we should work hard at putting on the new personality, which in wt speak meant their cult personality, nothing like the person of christ.. since leaving it has become necessary for us to make deep internal changes, to our worldview, to our emotions, and to our actions.. we have had to change from being controlled in all these areas by the wt cult, to forming our own new personality.. for born-ins like me this is really quite a task, we do not have a "pre-cult" personality to "recover".
but even for converts, there is stilll this work to do, before you joined you may have been racist, homophobic, or perhaps a thief, or immoral in some other way, surely you do not wish to "recover" those aspects of your original personality ?so you too have to "put on" a new one.. how are we all doing with this ?
i know that for me i feel it is still a work in progress, i need to work on certain things that are the result of my being in the jw/wt scam for all those decades, and some things that are a part of my natural personality which are not desireable as traits, laziness for example, and i am the arch-procrastinator, not good.. how do you guys feel you are doing since leaving ?.
Hi Phizzy,
"For born-ins like me this is really quite a task, we do not have a "Pre-cult" personality to "recover"."
Yup, very true! For me apart of this is acknowledging that part of my personality is shaped by my JW upbringing. This is then followed by further development after leaving the faith. For example, I continue to enjoy reading the Bible, despite being an atheist. Certainly this Bible interest stems from my JW background -- but I don't see that bit as huge negative.
Cheers,
-Randy
has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
Hi Cold Steel,
"Oh, and I certainly didn’t start this topic. Why criticize someone for defending what they believe? Don’t you?"
I started this this topic as a break point in your thread about a religion based on assumptions. Cofty had suggested you have been using the site to proselytize for your LDS faith. I don't know if you would agree with that or not. In any regards you said you joined "because I’m interested in the Jehovah’s Witness religion."
That is what is great about forums like this -- folks interested in Jehovah's Witnesses, beyond the sanitized view presented on jw.org can come here and get a more complete picture.
As I said a few times, I appreciate the interest LDS members might show in the Witnesses, because the interest almost certainly stems from a recognition (even somewhat subconciously) that the faiths are similar. Both began in the 1800s USA, have grown into the millions of members, are world wide, see themselves as restoring a true form of Christianity, yet have separated themselves in practice and doctrine from nominal Christianity.
However, building on Cofty's use of the word proselytizing, I thought you would be interested to know how Ex-JWs in general feel about the possibility of joining the LDS faith. And, I too am interested. When I asked in the OP, I assumed, it now appears correctly, very few would make that move. Several posts said it would be like going from the firepan into the fire.
When you see the good in your faith, it can be perplexing to understand why other's just can't seem to grasp it as well. It is easy to think, the "if only" line of thought. If only, an Ex-JW would listen to this or that Mormon appologist, they would see what I see. If only they would read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. If only they would attend a few services or invite the missionaries in. After all, they surely knew the truth in their pre-existence. In a darker moment, one might reflect on 2 Cor 4:4 to suggest people are being blinded by Satan. Alas, we are all too familiar with this, because it is something we did a lot as Witnesses too.
Eventually, the answer to "if only" comes into focus -- and it is none too pleasant -- that our faith is based on false assumptions that are easily shown. And the false assumption is only one of the problems, once one discovers the 607 BCE date is flawed, they'll soon discover how arguments are presented to support it, engage blantant dishonesty. The Book of Mormon contains multiple chapters of the KJV -- and that is seriously not funny. The KJV is deserving of it's place in the English speaking world because of the hard work it took to produce it and promote it. That information is easily accessed, simply by setting a KJV Bible beside a Book of Mormon and comparing.
Cheers,
-Randy
ps. Seeing uninformed comments made about our faith can provide us some comfort. We can conclude the problem with critics is one of ignorance. As Witnesses we knew that we had no issues with Kingdom Halls with windows. We knew we didn't "want our children to die" over the blood issue. Yet, we heard such comments from those on the outside. Yet, such comfort only goes so far -- because some of the issues critics speak of will remain. I would also say, I learned much more about my faith after leaving and talking with fellow Ex-JWs. Don't assume, posting on an Ex-Mormon forum would not increase your knowledge. Simply asking someone to share why they left the faith can be enlightening, even if one may not agree with all the reasons.
has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
Hi Cold Steel,
The two faiths are of course different. Shunning for example is a official practice among Jehovah's Witnesses, whereas it would be more of cultural expression that follows what the LDS faith teaches about former members. Nonetheless, a current JW who is in the initial stages of doubt, will find the LDS faith a close proxy of his own and visa-versa.
The Youtube video posted on this thread showed similarities, such as the use of language like "increasing light" employed as a thought stopper. The two faiths seek to control members access to information criticial of the faith, suggesting it is like "pornography." I was fairly certain this was the case, but of course only knew the JW side, I thus had to ask on the exmormonforums.com.
Here is the post where I thank the user Abinadi for his reference. It has the respective quotes from the two faiths.
Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for.....
Well, if we would act so decisively to protect our children from exposure to pornography, should we not expect that our loving heavenly Father would similarly warn us and protect us from spiritual fornication, including apostasy? He says, Keep away from it! (The Watchtower March 15, 1986 p 10-15).
Elder Packer said, “They leave the Church but they can’t leave it alone” (Utah State University baccalaureate address). They publish theological pornography that is damaging to the spirit. None of it is worth casting an eye upon. Do not read the anti-Mormon materials. (Vaughn J. Featherstone, member of the First Quorum of the Seventy)
Cheers,
-Randy
ps. The greater truth to the comment "they can't leave it alone", is the leadership of these respective faiths, don't "leave alone" those who wish a graceful exit. Name removal is a constant forum topic on Ex-Mormon forums and JWs often act against those who have left. Furthermore, who are these men to suggest, it is somehow wrong for former members to speak about their life experience? Or for that matter, should it not prompt some question about why former members "can't leave it alone"? Could it be they found the experience damaging and are seeking support from fellow Ex-Members? Or are motivated to warn others?
the jehovah's witnesses are a strange cultural phenomenon and one that has always puzzled me.
members call it "the truth" and, more boldly, "jehovah's organization.
" but many of those on the outside remain dumbfounded.
Hi Qcmbr,
Facinating! Very much a mirror of my experience. You might be interested to know, an Ex-Mormon returned missionary spoke at our 2013 Shun Run. He was officially excommunicated after coming out as gay. His experience with the faith, his family and coming to terms with being gay was actually very emotional to listen to. Personally it put some of the shunning I experience in perspective, that while a few JWs have chosen that path in regards to our family, at least there is acceptance in the wider community.
Take care,
-Randy
has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
Hi Designs,
"Be sure and read the Book of Mormon sometime, you will wonder to the end of time why bright well educated people could ever believe such crap, but hey that's the power of Religion."
I have read the Book of Mormon. Coming from a Bible reading background, it is pretty easy to spot the jump into KJV material in Nephi. Several consecutive chapters of KJV Isaiah are included verbatim. However, I found the read much easier than the Quran, that felt very foreign and repetition.
Cheers,
-Randy
has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
Hi Everyone,
Has anyone here left Jehovah's Witnesses to join The Churuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? What was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?
If you haven't joined the LDS or considered it, as an Ex-JW, what is your general view of the LDS faith?
Cheers,
-Randy
the jehovah's witnesses are a strange cultural phenomenon and one that has always puzzled me.
members call it "the truth" and, more boldly, "jehovah's organization.
" but many of those on the outside remain dumbfounded.
Hi Cold Steel,
Both Cofy and Qcmbr have commented on your current faith, which I assume is LDS (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've known one person who left Jehovah's Witnesses, became a Mormon, left that and is now an evangelical Christian. If you're using this forum as a safe-proxy to examine doubts you might have about Mormonism (perhaps even somewhat subconsciously) I have great sympathy for that, since I did exactly the same thing on the alt.religion.mormon Usenet group in the 1990s. If you had asked me at the time I would have not publically expressed any doubts my Witness faith, yet it facinated me how anyone could truly believe in Mormonism, when it has a so obviously flawed basis in the Book of Mormon.
I now believe my incredulity about why people believe was itself naive. Qcmbr I think hits upon some of the key reasons. The failed factual basis of a given faith is only one aspect, much larger is the wider cultural engagement. In terms of the failed facts, a simple read of a few right-sounding appologists and one can be comforted. But in the end there is no real basis to believe Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 607 BCE (the real date in 587 BCE) and everyone outside the Witness faith is wrong. Likewise, there is no real basis to believe the history of pre-Columbus Americas involved ancient Jewish settlers of the Book of Mormon, and everyone outside the LDS faith is wrong.
Your OP opens the thread on how assumptions can be the basis for a faith, that seems to pop into existence with little else. Both Cofty & Qcmbr comments do make me wonder how other Ex-JWs and current Witnesses who have left yet, view Mormonism. I'll open a new thread on that.
Cheers,
-Randy
peace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
Hi Perry,
"Prior to my belief and trust in Christ, there was little that worked to the degree that I wished it to in my life. I was powerless against my vices."
btw- If you're Christian faith has helped you overcome something negative in your life -- I am happy for you and good for you! Although I'm an atheist, I don't believe being religious is entirely negative. Even the Witnesses have proved to be the needed motivation for some to overcome smoking and other bad habits.
Cheers,
-Randy
peace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
Hi Perry,
"You cannot partcipate in your own salvation, it is a gift."
Fundementally, Jehovah's Witnesses believe this too -- that salvation is a free gift. They also believe in original sin.
"Man is utterly depraved and is infected with vanity."
You can believe that if you wish, but it is not the only view of humankind. The trap I see in this form of thinking is not much different than the "rotten old system of things" talk one hears at the Kingdom Hall. Although, there are many "improving world conditions" -- just think of how many childhood diseases have been reduced or removed in recent history -- saying such is not permitted within the Witness faith. It is not permitted, because it conflicts with a narrative about worsening world conditions and last days, etc. If man is not vain and depraved as you say, then what? Perhaps a story about an internal defect in need of a supernatural fix won't sound as correct.
Cheers,
-Randy
the jehovah's witnesses are a strange cultural phenomenon and one that has always puzzled me.
members call it "the truth" and, more boldly, "jehovah's organization.
" but many of those on the outside remain dumbfounded.
Hi Cold Steel,
The progenitors of Jehovah's Witnesses were the International Bible Students under Charles Taze Russell. Jehovah's Witnesses only saw themselves as completely separated from the rest of Christendom during the era of Rutherford (2nd president of the Watchtower Society). When you look at Jehovah's Witnesses and Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, I think more broadly it reflects a sort of innovative spirit of the United States mixed with freedom of religion as a core principal of the nation. Another driver seems to be the youth of the country itself, where even more established religions such as Roman Catholic and various protestant forms had to look back to Europe to assert they were "old and well established."
This seems to have continued with various new religious movements forming, splitting and some declining, etc.
Cheers,
-Randy
