WontLeave
JoinedPosts by WontLeave
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77
Board Dynamics
by snowbird invery few posters on friday and saturday nights.. heavy traffic on mondays and tuesdays - nights, also.. moderate amount on sundays, wednesdays, and thursdays.. syl.
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67
Why did Jesus come to Earth as a man?
by StopTheTears injesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth.
god used him as his chief spokesman.
that is why jesus is called "the word.".
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WontLeave
@AGuest
I won't paste your "evidence" that sinless flesh doesn't die, because it's just you saying it over and over.
The Most Holy One of Israel didn't "create" the Tree of Life, dear one - that One (the Tree) was born.
many of the "physical" qualities we have are only in imitation of spirit beings. We have eyes; they have eyes. We have ears; they have ears. And heads, legs, arms, faces, noses... and hair.
Michael, one of the angels of the Ark (i.e., arkangel)
I don't say you're insane because you disagree with my personal beliefs. The last one just had me embarrassed for you.
I hope this helps
It certainly gives me much insight. I'm sure your heart's in the right place, though.
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WontLeave
Can you please speak into my cuff link?
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67
Why did Jesus come to Earth as a man?
by StopTheTears injesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth.
god used him as his chief spokesman.
that is why jesus is called "the word.".
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WontLeave
@tec
Taking on an appearance and having innate characteristics are different things. The fallen angels who had sex with human woman didn't have human bodies, but they obviously gave themselves fully-functional, anatomically-correct ones. The angel in front of Balaam's donkey was invisible except to who he allowed to see him. It would seem any physical appearance that angel had would have been an illusion.
My response was to the ascended Christ having white hair, as if the Word, upon returning to Heaven would have literal hair of any color.
As far as the raising up, both occurrences in John seem to indicate reference to Jesus' physical body. The "temple" specifically meant his body and the "life" he laid down was human. Upon his resurrection, he was glorified in spirit. Perhaps he resurrected his old body (or made a new one, since that one had been dead 3 days) to finish his earthly mission, but he was obviously resurrected by a second party, or else him dying was a hoax.
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. - 1Pet 3:18
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67
Why did Jesus come to Earth as a man?
by StopTheTears injesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth.
god used him as his chief spokesman.
that is why jesus is called "the word.".
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WontLeave
@AGuest
Never mind; I thought you were sane. Sorry for wasting your and my time. From now on I'll treat your comments like the geneologies in the Bible and just skip over them.
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Why did Jesus come to Earth as a man?
by StopTheTears injesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth.
god used him as his chief spokesman.
that is why jesus is called "the word.".
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WontLeave
SinLESS flesh does not die.
Evidence, please? Adam would have continued to live, had he access to the Tree of Life. If he was created without sin and sinless flesh is immortal, why did God create the Tree of Life?
It was a ransom because he gave his life to repurchase US, not to "undo" what Adham "did."
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. - 1Cor 15:21-22
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. - Rom 5:18-19
My Lord resurrected himself... just as he (not God) will resurrect those who belong to him.
But God raised him from the dead - Acts 2:24
God has raised this Jesus to life - Acts 2:32
God raised him from the dead - Acts 13:34
By his power God raised the Lord from the dead - 1Cor 6:14
my Lord's hair is white.
A spirit has no physical qualities.
a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have - Luke 24:39
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Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
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WontLeave
JW converts haven't changed. They didn't have any reason to believe what they did in their last religion, except the pastor/priest/mullah told them to. Now, they have no reason to believe JW doctrine except the Society has told them to. They don't care what's in the Bible and they don't think anyone else does, either. So, they shove Watchtowers at people and can't fathom why doors are being slammed in their faces.
I've never had a door slammed in my face. I was yelled at once by a guy who was pissed at the last JW, but we ended up parting as friends. Next time we went, he took a book. I started Bible studies (real Bible studies) left and right, much to the chagrin of the pioneers who were utter failures. I often tried to explain that nobody cares what's in the Watchtower and neither should they, but all that did was get me into trouble.
Just like JWs believe themselves to be Bible scholars, because they can show apathetic churchgoers Bible verses they've never seen, the average JW can be shown things in the Bible they've never seen. They go from one apathetic rut to another and just change the men who tell them what to believe.
You'd think they would have the attitude of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But they don't. Drifting along in a church just because you were born into it is a symptom of a much greater fundamental character flaw. Transplanting that person into another religion doesn't change who they are. In fact, bombard them constantly with man-made doctrine instead of just an occasional Sunday sermon and they become dogmatic douchebags, parroting what the magazines and elders tell them. Now, they really fancy themselves Bible scholars, even though they still haven't read the book.
I've many times asked JWs - especially pioneers - "How can you go to someone's door and offer to explain a book to them you've never read?" The most honest responses I've gotten have indicated something profound to me that I don't believe most JWs consciously perceive: JWs aren't the preachers; the Society is. We're just supposed to be pack mules for their message. If we attempt to understand anything and preach that, we'll be labeled "apostates" and thrown out. We're not supposed to preach, or teach, or learn, or understand. We're supposed to be an extension of the Society. Odd; I thought they were "the slave".
We don't have to read the Bible, because the Society does that for us. Just like the Medieval Catholic Church, the JWs don't believe we have a right to the Bible. They've come right out and said it's their book. It's an "organizational book", it's "written to the faithful and discreet slave", "only to them is it not sealed", etc. Basically, they feel we have no right reading the Bible with the aim of understanding it. We're just supposed to memorized some 'proof texts' and take their word for what the rest says. They are our Magisterium.
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Advice about writing a letter to my relatives
by 2pink inmy husband and i left almost 2 years ago, and were quickly dubbed apostate and didn't refute it...since then we have had zero contact with either of our families (aside from one of my sisters and one of my aunts).
i think it's taken this long for me to come to terms with that...we both came from large families with extended relatives ...all jws.
something that i need to do for me is write a letter...it will be a pretty generic form letter, but anyway i want to draft and send a letter to those that i truly care about.
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WontLeave
The Society goes to great lengths to create an "us vs. them" mentality and "if ya ain't fur us, yer agin' us". The connection created in the cult mindset, equating the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to Jehovah himself is very strong. This is why finding fault with an unscriptural mistake in WT literature is seen as an attack on God. At the same time, a JW entertains the idea the WT isn't inspired and is imperfect. This is called "cognitive dissonance" and the brain struggles against this condition being pointed out. Not only does the cult member feel your denial of their magazine god is an attack on their faith, but their brain feels the mental anguish of being confronted with diametrically-opposed ideas being simultaneously held and will perform some very fancy mental gymnastics to alleviate this discomfort.
The easiest and first step in this process is to blame you, the perceived antagonist as the problem. You're causing their discomfort; not their ridiculous beliefs. Also keep in mind, JWs tend to be toward the left side of the bell curve, both intellectually and scholastically. Since it's highly unlikely they can argue their beliefs against someone who has given it much thought, they resort to personal attacks and glaring logical fallacies. They will create a quagmire of non-issues, copy-and-paste WT canned responses, and ad hominem excuses.
You can lead a Witness to truth, but you can't make him think. A happy cult member is impossible to deprogram. One can only open a JW who has caught a glimpse of the man behind the curtain to information which will fully expose the hypocrisy and lies of the Watchtower.
You may simply say you've learned the truth about The Truth tm and if they ever want to know what you know, they know where to contact you. It may spark curiosity and place the ball squarely in their court. Then, they can hardly complain if you simply answer their questions. Not that they wouldn't; I've known plenty of JWs who were so cocky and confident in their hypnosis, they went looking for fights, only to call foul and retreat, while hurling insults and feigning persecution.
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Your best one sentence JW comeback contest
by moshe ini am looking for your best jw comeback- the kind that makes a jw's jaw drop.
ok, even two pithy sentences will do.. here's one i have used before on jws,.
moshe: " do you know what an oxymoron is?
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WontLeave
If you never want to see them again, the best response I've found is "I'd love to study the Bible with you, but I refuse to read any church literature." I've accepted 3 Bible studies so far, and they don't come back. Their motivation is obvious, since their "We're just out encouraging Bible reading" is exposed as a lie. "We're preaching the Kingdom of God" is exposed as a lie. When you call all their bluffs, all they're left with is the bare truth that JWs are trying to put numbers on a sheet to impress the few men who will actually see it. Sadly, the only man who will have any idea who they are is the congregation secretary; beyond that, every publisher is just a number. One of the cells on their monthly timesheet is "placements" and another number is "Bible studies", which are only counted if they're using Watchtower literature. Once again, JWs confuse God's Word with the insane and inane rantings of men.
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If JWs Come To Your Door How Will You React?
by minimus inwould you engage them in conversation?
would you be home but hiding?
would you let them have it?
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WontLeave
The one who comes to my door denied the WT ever set dates. I told him I'd seen a list of them in a story about Harold Camping. I have to play dumb, so he doesn't shut down. He didn't believe it and asked for proof from WT literature and not 3rd-party opinion. I have 20-odd pages of WT quotes for the next time I see him. He seems like an intelligent guy who actually cares about the Bible. We'll see if he cares more about God or his group. I love quotes-watchtower.