Fortunately, I quickly saw through the idolatry required to achieve any "privileges". I actually rejected holding any position, when they talked to me about "reaching out" and attempted to groom me toward taking on responsibilities. I told the elders in plain terms that I refused to give them or the Society anything to hold against me. If I wanted to grow a beard, I would. If I wanted to listen to heavy metal, I would. If I didn't feel like attending every single meeting, I wouldn't. This led to their and the Society's frustration when I refused to conform to their man-made rules. I wouldn't sign up as a pioneer, even though I more than met the criteria. I wouldn't even be on the "School", because I wouldn't allow them anything to "take away". Not that I would have been upset, but I let them know I wouldn't allow them the satisfaction or perception of feeling like they punished me for not conforming to arbitrary standards of speech, dress, behavior, and thought.
WontLeave
JoinedPosts by WontLeave
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77
How HIGH did you climb the ranks as a JW? Did you like the STATUS?
by unshackled inso what were your biggest jw accomplishments as a rank & file?
curious as to what level you climbed the r&f ladder while in the org, or if you still are in.. did you regular pioneer, or auxiliary pioneer?
bethel?
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there are 2 classes of ex Jehovahs witnesses
by the max inhi im part of a group of ex jh,s, we meet for drinks and dinner, go to football games.many of the guys do drugs,(i dont, i like sport) , most live very hedonistic lifestyles, lets leave it at that,(im happily married).
my point is, when i left, i was honest, and got df,d.
now im experiencing the same kind of shit that i experieced in the hall, the ex jw,s are just as judgemental, and stupid as when they were at the kingdom hall, for eg you were df,d we were not,it doesnt matter to them, that their doing coke and getting into group sex.
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WontLeave
MOST of the JWs that I knew and met were wonderful people.
At one time, I would probably have agreed with you. I wasn't in their good graces long enough to have years of experience with them acting like wonderful people. Truly wonderful people will be wonderful under varying conditions, not only in particular circumstances. If someone is "wonderful" toward you when you think and act like them, but then turn on you and attack you when you don't, they aren't actually wonderful; they're manipulative.
It's my belief that JWs fall in love with the "brotherhood" veneer JWs put on; not with the actual person underneath. The relationships are shallow and based more on a mutual fear and hatred for "outsiders" than on anything positive perceived in each other. Once someone becomes "an outsider", the relationship is over, because it wasn't personal, but organizational. When the false pretense of friendship is dropped, the real person comes out and you can see the nasty, backstabbing, busybody personality lurking inside, waiting to stroke its ego at someone else's expense.
Especially among elders, in their back-room inquisitions, I've watched people go from pleasant and friendly to vile and blood-thirsty. Since they believe they hold your everlasting life in their hands, their eagerness to cut you off from Paradise for not holding to arbitrary rules is equal to murder. But, since they're the ones who determine your inclusion or exclusion, they are the first to perceive you as an "outsider" and once you are ousted from the group, you lose the status as human, in their minds.
Elders are nothing more than entry-level management of the organization, taken from the rank and file. Nearly every male in the organization pursues a goal of becoming an elder and eagerly assumes the mentality to kill his brothers and sisters for the group, to please the Governing Body. These are not "wonderful people". They are whitewashed graves who are full of dead men's bones. When JWs are thrown out, they just lose the whitewash.
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there are 2 classes of ex Jehovahs witnesses
by the max inhi im part of a group of ex jh,s, we meet for drinks and dinner, go to football games.many of the guys do drugs,(i dont, i like sport) , most live very hedonistic lifestyles, lets leave it at that,(im happily married).
my point is, when i left, i was honest, and got df,d.
now im experiencing the same kind of shit that i experieced in the hall, the ex jw,s are just as judgemental, and stupid as when they were at the kingdom hall, for eg you were df,d we were not,it doesnt matter to them, that their doing coke and getting into group sex.
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WontLeave
The vast majority of JWs are broke-ass trash controlled by a totalitarian regime imposing a man-made code of morality. Remove that convoluted set of rules from their lives and all you have left is trash. Precious few ex-JWs were thrown out for rising above the organization and being labeled an "apostate" for achieving actual Christian beliefs and emotions. Most are thrown out for allowing their trashy personality to get the best of them and lapsing into totally unacceptable behavior. This is one of the drawbacks from a belief system that can only appeal to the ignorant and stupid: You can take the Witness out of the ghetto, but you can never completely get the ghetto out of the Witness. Actually, a JW found in the ghetto will stay there, because personal achievement is condemned and the personality of the human filth that convert is already looking for any excuse to be the failures they already are.
I can't count how many times the trailer-park JWs have paid homage to "unlettered and ordinary" as if ignorance and stupidity are fruit of the Spirit. In one Hall I attended, a family was inflicting home school on their children. Mere words can not convey how ignorant and stupid the mother who was supposed to be teaching them was. On one occasion, I actually called her out on it and asked her if she really felt she was qualified to teach her kids, because she didn't possess the grade-school-level skills she was supposed to be inculcating in them. I picked up something she had written and showed her all the horrific and basic mistakes she had made. Of course, being a white-trash human, she defended her complete ineptitude as me simply being nit-picky.
To me, it's no wonder so many ex-JWs are such loathsome people. They were garbage the whole time but when their true personality comes out to the public, JWs want to pretend like that kind of person is unacceptable and distance themselves. If it weren't for latent criminals, there would be more like 7k JWs instead of 7M.
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Couple of questions for the Christians here - CO's talk mentioned some things that I want to understand
by Doubting Bro inthis is a question for all the christians on the board.
i sat through the first co talk last night which was basically a plea to not give up preaching.
one of his main points was that no one else had "the truth" and every other person that claims to be christian is in error.
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WontLeave
From talking to people of various churches (and actually listening to them) various churches have various beliefs and various people believe various degrees of what their churches teach, making for enormous diversity of doctrine. To pigeon-hole "Christendom" into a single, narrow belief system is patent misinformation and propaganda. Granted, the Bible makes it clear there are only 2 types of religion to God: True and false. What the JWs fail to understand is that lock-step adherence to their beliefs is also false. Being "closest to the truth" is not the same as being truth.
I have had many people at the doors tell me they believe no human could die for the sins of several billion people and they believe God himself dying for our sins would be a more even exchange. Some have the understanding that the propitiation was for Adam and that "the whole world" benefits from that even exchange, however.
My understanding, from Scripture - not from JWs - is that Jesus is a lesser god to the father. He is "made of the same stuff", so to speak. My understanding of John 1:1 is that Jesus is literally a "chip off the old block" and thus fully capable of understanding the Father, while not being as powerful since he is merely a small piece of the Father. However, Jesus was not his spiritual god self while on Earth. His personality (a carbon copy of God's) was transfered to the womb of Mary, making him totally human but with a perfect mind and figurative "heart".
Most JWs believe, since he was "perfect", Jesus would still be alive, walking around today, if he hadn't been executed. That, of course, is hogwash. Nothing about Adam was changed but his access to the Tree of Life. There are no Trees of Life on earth now, so neither we nor Jesus could partake of them and indefinitely live. According to Revelation, Trees of Life (whatever they may be) will be plentiful in the New World, but even according to the Bible, "perfect" humans are not eternal of themselves.
As far as Adam believing he'd go to Heaven, that's a new one on me. It sounds like he's taking a lot of liberties with the "become like God" aspect of Satan's temptation to Eve and then overlaying it on churches. I've made the connection in my preaching that a form of the idea of not dying, but becoming like God is what most churches teach, but never suggested anyone believed Adam was trying for that.
It sounds like a typical JW (il)logical leap made out of completely misunderstanding everyone else. It may be that in his JW-inflicted ignorance, he believes this or it may be that he understands he can say whatever he wants to because all the other JWs are too ignorant to know any better and won't verify anything he says. I've never heard any other JW say that, but rumor and myth spread like wildfire among JWs, so it may only be a matter of time. In the simplistic, cultish mind of a JW, anything the C/O says comes from Bethel and everything Bethel says comes from the very mind and mouth of God. This being the case, perhaps to many JW retards, this will become doctrine.
As far as Mormon understanding of the whole Garden of Eden thing; they've totally lost their minds. Nearly every part of it is falsified in Scripture, even though they insist their religion doesn't violate the Bible, but merely add to it.
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Was Judas Present During "The Lord's Evening Meal"?
by dontplaceliterature inso...i heard the speaker during the memorial mention this.
he said for a fact, that judas would not have been present.
however, upon reading luke 22, you see clearly that the argument about judas started after jesus instituted the new covenant.
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WontLeave
In John 13, the meal is over in v4 and Judas doesn't leave until v30. So, even if Jesus handed Judas a scrap of bread that was completely unassociated with the passing of bread and wine, they were up from the table and wrapped in towels, washing feet, before Judas left. Add Luke to that and it's pretty obvious that Judas was present for the passing of bread and wine.
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I could use some help arming myself.
by WontLeave ini know there is going to be a backlash to skipping the memorial and i want to be ready.
i actually drove by the kingdom hall last evening, just so i could say i came on passover and nobody was there.
this will initiate a watchtower worship session where they drag out all of their "scholarly" research.
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WontLeave
In this case, I'm going to have to go with Rambo. He didn't start the fight, but he was a whole lot better prepared for it. I won't initiate a confrontation, but anyone who's ever stood out at the Hall knows, you don't have to start it; they'll bring it to you. Some may see me as baiting them, but the same could be said about Jesus or Daniel, then.
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I could use some help arming myself.
by WontLeave ini know there is going to be a backlash to skipping the memorial and i want to be ready.
i actually drove by the kingdom hall last evening, just so i could say i came on passover and nobody was there.
this will initiate a watchtower worship session where they drag out all of their "scholarly" research.
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WontLeave
This confrontation won't be about me. It will be a stand for truth and a demonstration I have no fear of men. It will be a chance for them to bury themselves and me to have a record of events. After I'm thrown out for standing up for truth, they won't be able to deny it or lie about what transpired. I've experience the elders "paraphrasing" events in the back room. In all honesty, they're damned liars and they're going to step in it, deep.
I don't recall any scriptures that praise wandering off or leaving (thus, my name). But there are plenty about being thrown out and excluded for taking a stand. Jesus didn't avoid confrontation and neither did he suggest it to his followers. Never do I remember him saying
"Okay, guys... The Pharisees are getting upset about us not washing our hands to the elbow - I know, I know... But let's just try to be nice to them and maybe they'll be nicer to us. Here's what we're going to do: Whenever we're around them, let's just conform so they don't get upset. When we're in our own homes, we can wash whatever we want, but let's not make waves."
This isn't about winning them over, because they're Pharisees. This isn't about making changes happen, because they're Pharisees. This isn't about making them feel ashamed, because they're Pharisees. No victory can be had in those kangaroo courts any more than Jesus could convert the power-hungry leadership in his day. The victory to be had is with the onlookers. The people who saw Jesus take on the corrupt establishment and were empowered to take a stand themselves. Jesus wasn't afraid of them and he realized his responsibility to make a stand and show it's not impossible and it certainly isn't wrong.
Granted, I'm not the High Priest of God's people, like Jesus was/is. I don't have the authority to call them names and condemn them to Gehenna. But I have Scriptural counsel to make a stand and defend my faith; and my faith isn't in 7 old men in Brooklyn or in the printing company they run. And it certainly isn't in 7M maids and construction workers.
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Atlas Shrugged Part 1
by littlerockguy inwent and saw atlas shrugged part 1 at the rave theater here in little rock friday night.
i was surprised it showed here since it had such a limited showing.. anyway i was really surprised at how well it was done on such a limited budget and a very tight and short schedule to have the whole picture done and it really followed the book very well.
i went to the 7:15 showing and the theater was packed but but not sold out.
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WontLeave
It's always helpful to get the rantings of opinionated fringe groups. Thank you for the copy-and-paste insight, bohm. Can you find something as scathing about An Inconvenient Truth or some Michael Moore movies or would that be against your uber-leftist religion?
Thankfully, we with a back-story of dealing with the JW nutters who use propaganda and severely-slanted spin have a place like this to come to, so we can get it from a fresh source.
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I could use some help arming myself.
by WontLeave ini know there is going to be a backlash to skipping the memorial and i want to be ready.
i actually drove by the kingdom hall last evening, just so i could say i came on passover and nobody was there.
this will initiate a watchtower worship session where they drag out all of their "scholarly" research.
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WontLeave
I know there is going to be a backlash to skipping the Memorial and I want to be ready. I actually drove by the Kingdom Hall last evening, just so I could say I came on Passover and nobody was there. This will initiate a Watchtower worship session where they drag out all of their "scholarly" research. Just like they had "scholarly" research that Jesus was clean-shaved, blood transfusions and organ transplants would change people's personalities, the human heart controls emotions. I'd like to compile a nice list of incredibly stupid things the Society turned over every rock to find some "expert" to agree with their ridiculous belief. I'd prefer the information to be on the CD-ROM, since that would be easier to print off, but perhaps establishing a long history of shady proof from so-called "experts" would help, too.
If I'm called into the back room over this, I will have a digital recorder on me. I will record it and I will post it online. I will crush and destroy them, as I usually do. Only, this time I will not temper my responses as their brother, but I will treat them as the apostate antichrists they are. I am already aware they will never admit the Society is wrong now or ever has been. I know they will completely turn away from sound doctrine, in favor of worshiping their idol, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I am fairly confident I will be DFed as an "apostate" for holding to the truth.
One really interesting point is that denying their erroneous day of Passover, denying their weak evidence for the "torture stake", denying their insane interpretation of "faithful and discreet slave" and all it entails; those are all trivial matters. They do not deny the Christ. They do not question the existence or nature of God. They do not call any Bible doctrinal into question, but I'm confident the elders will consider it heresy, because I refuse to worship their golden calf with them.
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Is it me or do the JW's act like the Circuit Overseer is Jesus himself?
by stillstuckcruz ini'm sure many have noticed that.
now obviously many more will go out in fs than usual and such because the co brings more "insight" on fs than the usual brothers.
understandable i guess.
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WontLeave
After I first came into the religion, when I saw the Kingdom Hall which was normally empty on weekday mornings suddenly fill with axillary pioneers for the month it struck me as odd. People were falling all over themselves to impress this guy and I immediately thought of all the scriptures which talked about doing things for the glory of men.
Then, when I attended my first district convention, a big group of the guys in my Hall were running down a corridor like the place was on fire. One yelled to me "Want to go with us to meet one of the kings of the earth?" A member of the Governing Body was there and they were practically wetting their pants over him. The only thing I felt about him was that he was old and even with his (if I recall correctly) Scottish accent, his talks were boring and he spoke very slowly.
I mentioned how uncomfortable the whole thing made me, every time some official from the Society was around. It's like I was speaking Swahili to these people, as they couldn't fathom why I wouldn't swoon over someone higher up the ladder between the unwashed and God himself. I thought about the times I'd heard them say there is no clergy/laity distinction and was just dumbfounded.
The part that had me most confused is that many of the guys I knew in the congregation were converts. I can maybe understand how a born-in can be so indoctrinated in the proprietary culture and emotions of very close-knit and separatist extremist group, but some of these people had spent decades as human beings yet had decided to become these mindless freaks that I saw.