Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

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  Vanderhoven7

  Jhine

  Hi

  I believe you are looking for how the NWT translates these verses. Is that right? Or are you looking for how they explain them?
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  4

  Watchtower's 144,000 logic Questioned

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower september 1, 1951, in a wonderful article entitled “hated for his name”(pp518,519) describes the persecution and martyrdom of steadfast christians in the first 3 centuries ad.. “by the year (a.d.) 64 christianity was prominent throughout much of the roman empire, including the capital city rome itself.

  their individual characteristics, form of worship and steadfast refusal to compromise thereon had madethe christians sure targets of hostility and ridicule.

  that year, the tenth in the reign of emperor nero, rome was swept by a conflagration so great it is yet the object of poetry and legend....diocletian assumed the crown a.d. 284.. at first he seemed friendly to the christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all.

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  Vanderhoven7

  The Watchtower September 1, 1951, in a wonderful article entitled “Hated For His Name”(pp518,519) describes the persecution and martyrdom of steadfast Christians in the first 3 centuries AD.

  “By the year (A.D.) 64 Christianity was prominent throughout much of the Roman Empire, including the capital city Rome itself. Their individual characteristics, form of worship and steadfast refusal to compromise thereon had madethe Christians sure targets of hostility and ridicule. That year, the tenth in the reign of Emperor Nero, Rome was swept by a conflagration so great it is yet the object of poetry and legend....Diocletian assumed the crown A.D. 284.

  At first he seemed friendly to the Christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all. Suffocation by smoke, forcible drinking of melted lead, mass drownings and bumings, breaking on the rack of men and women alike ran the empire with blood. In a single month 17,000 were slain. In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works”.

  So What's the problem?

  The problem is that the religion of Jehovah Witnesses has set a limit of 144,000 faithful Christians that could have possibly existed in the 19 centuries prior to 1914.

  In response to the above article a rather astute Witness asked a pointed question

  WT 1952 1/15 p. 62 Questions From Readers

  "According to the article “Hated for His Name” in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the “ten persecutions” starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic."

  Now note the WT following response.

  "The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: “In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works.” The victims are identified as “professed Christians”, not Christians in fact. Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus’ footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such."

  
  

  Isn't that insulting to those who made the ultimate sacrifice for staying true to their Christian beliefs? I mean how does the WTS know these were not real Christians? They know because of a questionable numerical theory developed without scholarship from a passage in a symbolic book. Talk about Judgmentalism.

  
  
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  40

  Double Standards of the Watchtower

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

  here a a few i am aware of:.

  1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

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  Vanderhoven7

  I think I should prepare a concise list of WTS double standards from this thread.
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  40

  Double Standards of the Watchtower

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

  here a a few i am aware of:.

  1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

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  Vanderhoven7

  Picked the following from Reddit

  "The Borg use to brag about how they don’t ever ask for donations. They were always criticizing religions who begged for money, looking down their noses at churches who passed the plate around. Then of course, there is Russell’s quote about how when they have to ask for money, it would be time to call it quits, etc. So right about the time I left, I saw this information my PIMI husband brought home from the GB asking people to put them in their wills and they had a list of every possible thing you could give to them on your demise. Things like your life insurance, jewelry, your house, etc."
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  40

  Double Standards of the Watchtower

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

  here a a few i am aware of:.

  1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

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  Vanderhoven7

  So many great additions that I had not thought of.

  And what about Watchtower insisting children not salute the flag when WT leaders all sign oaths of allegiance to uphold the US constitution in order to get their travel visas. (got pics if anyone wants documentation)

  Also I remember reading on this forum where the WT warned people not to put their trust in princes I.e., men when in the same breath tell the rank and file to trust them since Jesus does.
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  60

  Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

  by Fadeaway3pointer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

  not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

  this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

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  Vanderhoven7

  I don't view the choice the parents have made as bullying, coercion or blackmail. They have made a decision to disassociate from their adult children based on their convictions. Everyone, in a free society, has the right to associate or not associate with the adults of their choice. Moreover their tactics do work to the ends of their cult whether people protest or not. Shouting, "That's not nice!" is not going to change anything.

  Best let them isolate themselves.
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  60

  Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

  by Fadeaway3pointer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

  not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

  this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

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  Vanderhoven7

  UTR,

  Excellent reasoning. Too bad the religion isn't reasonable.
• 
  40

  Double Standards of the Watchtower

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

  here a a few i am aware of:.

  1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Vanderhoven7

  Are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Here a a few I am aware of:

  1. The WTS equated joining the YMCA with apostasy but felt free to join the UN for 10 years (1991-2001)

  2. The WTS warns its adherents not to receive any criticism about their organization but feels free to demonize every other religious organization on earth.
  

  3. The WTS instructs it's members to put their church's literature in the hands of others but to refuse any literature produced by other churches.
  
  Can anyone add to the list?
• 
  60

  Rec'd a letter from my Dad - need some advice...

  by Fadeaway3pointer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  fader here - last meeting was in autumn 2005. lurker on this site and others.

  not one to get all controversial.. typical situation, pretty much a born in and left the church at age 38 and never looked back.. i'm 53 now, parents getting older - late 70s but very active, dad is still an elder.. parents, in laws, brother and brother-in-law still uber active jws.. my family (wife and 2 adult children) out since 2005.. we have stayed close to our parents - we have treaded religion lightly and have had a pretty good relationship and have kept our personal lives and beliefs/opinions separated from them.

  this was intentional - as we love them and do not want anything to cause shunning since they are getting older and want to be there for them and we respect their beliefs.. got this letter today.

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  Vanderhoven7

  @Jamie

  Heart breaking
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  15

  Why is he spiritual Israel not innumerable?

  by Salomo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please share this question.

  why is he spiritual israel not innumerable?.

  the literal seed of abraham was innumerable (heb 11:12; gen 22:17; 1ki 4:20).

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  Vanderhoven7

  Waton,

  I am somewhat confused by your post.

  I agree with you that the 144,000 are an innumerable company...but not that the WTS considers them as having an earthly hope.