Posts by Vanderhoven7

16

Just one foot in...

by Jofi_Wofo in

...with one foot out.. *deep breath*.

from day one, i've felt like i was one foot out of this religion, but it took me until over a decade to reach the point where i am ready to move on.

i'm a newly registered user to this site.

Sorry to hear about your dilemma Jofi. If I were you I would wait till the move before sharing your skepticism with your wife. I would make the most of fieldservice as well...sharing your faith, I.e. what you still do believe, not what you don't. I would also use your time prior to the move to figure out how you will break the news to your wife in as gentle a way as possible. And if you still believe in God, I would ask Him to lead you and your wife in your new situation.

8

Proof for 1914

by Vanderhoven7 in

i'm not sure who wrote the following article, but it bears repeating: (please take the credit if it was you.).

solid proof for 1914.

"as evidence of their falsehoods, look at the timing for armageddon.

Vanderhoven7

I'm not sure who wrote the following article, but it bears repeating: (Please take the credit if it was you.)

Solid proof For 1914

"As evidence of their falsehoods, look at the timing for Armageddon. Originally, Jesus came invisibly in 1874 and Armageddon was supposed to happen in 1914.

This was because Cyrus invaded Babylon in 536 BCE so Jerusalem must have been captured 70 years prior in 606 BCE. -606 + 2520 years = 1914. EXCEPT, they discovered Cyrus really invaded Babylon in 539 BCE, so if you back up 70 years, would mean Jerusalem was conquered in 609 BCE, 3 years earlier. So 1914 should be 1911. But wait. Oops, there was no 0 year between 1 BCE and 1 AD. So 1911 should be 1912. Oops, there was no big event in 1912. So... even though the Bible says 70 years will be complete AND THEN THE KING OF BABYLON WILL BE PUNISHED, let's end the 70 years 2 years later in 537 BCE after the Jews might have returned to Jerusalem and AFTER the king of Babylon has been dead for 2 years. Even though he's supposed to be punished AFTER the 70 years ended. How can he be punished 2 years after he's dead? I thought JWs didn't believe in the afterlife.

So anyway, now the 70 years ends 2 years after the king of Babylon is punished in 537 BCE. So back up 70 years, we get 607 BCE. And add 2520 years with no year 0 and we come up with 1914. Amazing. All of that was wrong, but somehow we came up with the same year as something significant happened. How prophetic!!! One would almost think they picked the year and worked backwards to prove it instead of the prophecy telling us a damned thing.

So that's one of many things. You can also read in the bible about how they've been fasting yearly when they're rebuilding the temple. Figure out the timeline and what they might be fasting over. And does that line up with history's timeline for the destruction of Babylon or the Witnesses? It's in the bible. The JWs are WRONG!!!

You've also got the dating. My father became a witness in the 50's. There's pictures of my older sisters at conventions in NYC below signs that said the world governments were about to come to an end. Over 60 years ago. If you had expressed back then that we'd go into 2019 with no Armageddon, you'd have been disfellowshipped as an apostate and you know it.

In Ray Franz's book in the early 80's, he said there was talk of changing the meaning of generations. That it could mean a period of time longer than a lifetime. He published this book in the early 80's. There's evidence. About 1993 or 1994, the Witnesses changed the meaning of generation that allowed for more time. Why? Probably because the biblical lifespan of 70 or 80 years of special mightiness was running out. 1994 was 80 years after 1914. In fact, the Watchtower at the time said on the inside front cover that the preaching work would be completed before the end of the century. Yet here we are. And if you'd have said you didn't agree, you'd be an apostate.

If you didn't believe the society on the longer meaning of generation you'd be disfellowshipped. Yet a few years ago, they abandoned it for a meaning of overlapping generations.

Archaeology has always said they're wrong with their ancient dating. Their prophecies have been dubious at best. And they keep changing the dates while archaeology has remained the same. Who's the one trying to pound a square peg into a round hole?

According to the JWs, Jesus has been here 105 years. While people die and suffer. Yet the JWs will put a spin that he is waiting so that more can be saved while at the same time, JWs cut back on their preaching work and cut back on their meetings and cut back on the size and frequency of their publications. Who's Jesus trying to save if he's cutting back the work?

3

broke up with jw girl

by aleale in

i met this girl last year in april .

she ended up falling in love with me first , and i was surprised when she said i love you .

i taught myself to love her back .

Vanderhoven7

Sorry that it hurts so much. It is not fair but predictable that this happened. Now you know to avoid anyone else that is involved in a cult like Jehovah's Witnesses. It certainly is devastating but take comfort in the fact that it could have been far worse.

10

Watchtower said " Worship Jesus"

by UnDisfellowshipped in

"make sure of all things" book, page 85, column 1:

" (matt.

in the revelation, which god gave jesus, the pure worship is shown as due to be given to the most high god, jehovah.

Vanderhoven7

For God ... hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

THAT ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON

EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. He that

honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father which

hath sent Him. Jn.5:22,23

Witnesses argue that Jesus Christ is not worthy of the unqualified or unlimited worship due the Father. But by denying the Son reverent homage or service paid to God they can only ascribe to Him instead, recognition, honor, respect given to men.

Relative honor to God through an angel was

reproved in these words: "Be careful! Do not

do that!...Worship God."

Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9, NWT)

'Let God Be True', 1952 edition p. 151

The distinctions Witnesses make in worship due the Father and Son are totally extra-biblical and not in keeping with Apostolic teaching and practice.

What is it that distinguishes that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped?

Language of Scripture?

"Proskyneo" is consistently translated as "worship" in the King James. It is he only Greek word translated as worship. "Proskyneo" is applied 21 times to the Father and 17 times to the Son. The only fair conclusion we can come to here is that the language of scripture does not distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped.

Scriptural Example?

There is not one example of the disciples or anyone else in scripture limiting their expression of worship of Christ. Jesus never rebuked the disciple for improper proskyneo of Himself. only the self proclaimed religious authorities objected to Jesus being honored as the Father was honored. They proclaimed vigorously, saying such things as, "You make yourself equal with God" and "Only God can forgive sins" etc. To them, no man should claim the attributes or prerogatives of God. So not only does scriptural language, but also scriptural example fails to distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped.

Scriptural Instruction?

There are no proscriptive instructions defining relative proskyneo of Christ, nor are there restrictive commandments, limiting the proskyneo of the Son. So the alleged distinction in meaning of proskyneo of Father and Son is not clarified by a distinction in scriptural terminology or by scriptural example or by scriptural commandment either prescriptive or restrictive. All restrictions proposed by any religious authority are really extra-biblical (i.e. the commandments of men). The truth is that ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER (Jn.5:22, 23). Christians can and the disciples could, never honor Jesus too highly.

Witnesses argue that Matthew 4:10 excludes unqualified worship of the Son. "You shall worship the Lord your God and him ONLY shall you serve". (Matt 4:10) That is simply not true. The exclusive element of this instruction rests on the last phrase and yet we are called to be servants of Christ. If we substitute the word "Honor" for worship in Matthew 4:10, so that it read "You shall honor the Lord your God and him only shall you serve", would the verse inform Christians that they should not give identical honor to the Son?

Form and Content?

"...to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong."

(W.T. March 1880. p.83)

Can the alleged distinction in meaning of 'proskyneo' when applied to the Son be established by the form or content of worship displayed by the disciples/apostles? Do not the following constitute elements of proskyneo in terms of form and content that can legitimately be a part of the proskyneo rendered to the Son:

a. bowing the knee to Jesus while confessing Him as Lord?

Phil.2:9-11

b. prostrating oneself completely before Jesus? Rev.5:8

c. fellowship or commune with Jesus, sharing our personal

aspirations and hopes? I Jn.1:3

d. coming to Jesus for relief of personal burdens and

cares? Mat. 11:28

e. calling on the name of Jesus, addressing Him personally

as Lord? Acts 9:14, I Cor.1:2

f. praying personally to Jesus, petitioning Him for self

and others? Acts 7:59-60 Jn.14:14

g. glorifying Jesus by praise? Ps.50:23 Jn.16:14, Mat.21:14-16

h. honoring Jesus verbally by ascribing worth to Him?

eg."To Him who sits on the throne, and to the

Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power,

for ever and ever. Rev.5:13 NIV.

i. honoring Jesus by shouting or even singing His praises?

e.g. In a loud voice they (angels) sang:

Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain

to receive power and wealth and Wisdom

and strength and HONOR AND GLORY

AND PRAISE. Rev.5:12 NIV.

j. verbally ascribing to Jesus absolute worth?

e.g. JESUS: Lord of Lords and King of Kings;

Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last,

The beginning and the end. Rev.20:12

My Lord and my Ho Theos. Jn.20:28

Your name is to be praised O Emmanuel,

Ho Theos with us! Mat.1:23

All power in heaven and earth is Yours;

You created all things; and without you there

was nothing made. Jn.1:3

And Your throne Ho Theos is forever. Heb. 1:8

May all angels and men worship you continually.

Heb.1:6

Even so come Lord Jesus: Rev.22:20 Amen.

As a Jehovah's Witness, which elements of proskyneo above do you practice?

40

Double Standards of the Watchtower

by Vanderhoven7 in

are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

here a a few i am aware of:.

1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

Vanderhoven7

Not sure where I picked this up:

“HAVING IT BOTH WAYS

a. "When individuals leave the organization for conscience reasons, it is evidence that God is shepherding and protecting the flock by doing a sifting work. When people leave another Christian religion it is evidence that the religion is morally corrupt and unable or unwilling to provide spiritually for their members.

b. When a Christian from another denomination lies, he is acting according to his own disposition being from the father of the lie. When a Jehovah Witness lies, he is proving his loyalty to Jehovah and fulfilling his sacred obligation to engage in spiritual warfare.

c. During times of rapid growth the organization claims Gods approval for the harvest. During times of little or negative growth, the organization prints that this is evidence that the end is near because it appears that the harvest work is almost over.

d. When a Jehovah's Witness is martyred, it is seen as following Christs example and fulfillment of Scripture. When a Christian of another denomination is martyred it is seen as a misguided, albeit admirable exercise in a form of faith but proving false to its Source.

e. When the organization interprets prophecy falsely it is due to man's imperfection and an eagerness to see the new system. When another religious group makes false predictions it is proof that they are a false prophet in fulfillment of Christs words about the presence of many false prophets during the last days.

f. When other Christian faiths experience growth it is because the Devil is misleading the entire inhabited earth. When Jehovah's Witnesses experience growth it is undeniable evidence that Jesus is actively leading and blessing the organization.

g. When other religions are exposed as fraudulent and a menace to society and they lose certain privileges or status within a particular context, it is because God uses the governments as his executioner of justice. When the Jehovah's Witnesses are exposed as fraudulent and a menace to society and they lose certain privileges or status within a particular context, it is because Satan owns all the governments; else how could he have offered all of them to Jesus as a temptation?

h. When the Catholic Church engages in protecting Pedophile Priests by hushing up the matter it is evidence that they are a filthy Harlot. When Jehovah Witnesses don't notify police of charges of child molestation it is because of their willingness to allow Jehovah to handle the matter in his due time;

i. When a Jehovah's Witness is unrepentant he is disfellowshipped., branded unfit for association. When the organization is unrepentant of its sins and people find it unfit for association and contentiously leave, it is because they are full of pride and refuse to wait on Jehovah.

j. When a Christian of another faith celebrates Mothers Day they are following ancient pagan practices and giving undue attention to someone. When Sisters wear a wedding ring which clearly has pagan origins and draws attention to her status, it is evidence of the divinely inspired institution of marriage.

k. When other Churches support the UN it is evidence that the harlot is fornicating with the Wild Beast. When the organization officially agreed to support UN objectives it was because they needed "access to their library".

l. When a different faith-believing relative shuns their Jehovah's Witness family member, it is fulfillment of Christs prophecy concerning the breaking up of families when someone starts to believe in Christ. When a Jehovah's Witness shuns his different believing relatives, whether they believe in Christ or not, it is seen as an action necessary to keep oneself without spot from the world.

Every event in Jehovah's Witness life is seen as evidence that they have the truth and others simply deserve to be destroyed by God.

39

Only One Destiny for All Christians

by cofty in

the following is an extract from an article i wrote when i left the watchtower 25 years ago.

it may be helpful in reasoning with a jw about the anointed/great crowd distinction.. --------------------------------.

to divide people into those with a heavenly hope and those with an earthly one is not a biblical concept.

Vanderhoven7

Rutherford bought into the other sheep being a heavenly class until 1935 when he changed his mind about the destiny of this alleged secondary group.

9

JW Elder Swan Sermon

by Vanderhoven7 in

what happens when an elder learns the tatt.. https://youtu.be/tkyujamfziq.

Vanderhoven7

Dozy...thank you for posting the background to the audio. I couldn't believe that they didn't shut him down before he gave a word to the children.

I wonder how he is doing today in terms of family. Hope they are broken free from WT bondage.

44

I.B.S.A. members were witnesses of Jesus Christ.-JW`s members are witnesses of Jehovah.

by smiddy3 in

is there a difference ?

i believe so ,and a very big difference.one that harmonises with the new testament in bearing witness to jesus and his kingdom and one that amounts to a new gospel bearing witness to jehovah and his kingdom something that is condemned in the bible.. c.t.russell started the magazine called "zions watchtower and herald of christs presence" and its emphasis was on bearing witness about jesus christ and his kingdom ,of course he got many things wrong ,but he was focused on jesus & his kingdom with what the new testament is all about.. j.f.rutherford in his wisdom decided to change the heading of the watchtower to " the watchtower announcing jehovah`s kingdom" a phrase / term / doctrine that is not in the new testament and takes away the importance and role that jesus christ has in bringing people to god.phil.2:9-11. nowhere in the christian greek scriptures / new testament are followers of jesus christ instructed to be witnesses of jehovah ,nowhere there is not one scripture that instructs them to do so.. however in the christian greek scriptures / new testament there are over twenty scriptures whereby christians are told to be witnesses of jesus.. and it was by divine providence that followers of christ were to be called christians .acts 11:26 , not jehovah`s witnesses.. do jw`s even know what it means " by divine providence " ?.

the jw`s use isaiah 43:10-12 an old testament scripture to justify calling themselves jehovah`s witnesses,however that was applied to the israelites back then ,did they adopt the name jehovah`s witnesses ?

Vanderhoven7

Yes, Russell advanced that Jesus was entitled to real worship. It was in 1954 that the Society limited Jesus to obeisance or relative worship.

6

Can someone help with an OPEN OFFICE question please?

by The Fall Guy in

jw
friends

i've only recently started using this programme.

it does exactly what i need, but one thing i don't like about it is this:.

when i type out more than one page, it displays them on the screen as side by side - instead of sequentially below each other.. can anyone tell me how to change the way the documents are displayed?.