Posts by Vanderhoven7

16

Is the Bible of extraterrestrial origin?

by Vanderhoven7 in

highly illuminating video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkhdyhmolmw.

i thought these bible cryptologists were all nuts.

this guy changed my mind..

Vanderhoven7

Highly illuminating video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKHdyhmolMw

I thought these Bible cryptologists were all nuts. This guy changed my mind.

24

From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

by Pallbearer in

howdy folks,.

i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

Vanderhoven7

Please....devil...big loser, not big lover.

If this was generated by my phone, I could always blame the self correcting feature.

24

From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

by Pallbearer in

howdy folks,.

i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

Vanderhoven7

My take on this:

Perhaps the heavens may refer to earth's atmosphere which has been compromised by pollution. The new earth would probably resemble the original garden; heaven on earth so to speak, which will be complete at the close of the millennial reign when the Holy city, new Jerusalem descends from above.

It seems there will be limited sin during the millennium itself as Jesus and the church rule over cities and nations with a rod of iron until sin is totally eradicated.

God knew Adam would sin as Christ agreed to being slain before the foundation of the world.

Men and angels were given free will or Adam would not have a choice to be victorious over sin through Christ's sacrifice and partake in the divine nature. The angels who remained faithful were made immortal as the church will be in the resurrection and those of the nations that remain faithful, at the close of the millennium.

Sounds unbelievable.... but God is going to be the big winner and the devil the big lover.

That's all folks.

16

Daughter joining JW

by gary in

my fifty year-old daughter is studying to be a jehovah witness.

i am her catholics father.

just wondering because they are not allowed to associate with worldly people.

Vanderhoven7

My suggestion:

Send her an article on blood transfusions and ask her to explain the contradictions and faulty logic in the WT stand. Also there are threads on this site that will help. Also check out JWfacts.com for a fuller treatment of the subject.

She naturally will consult with her teacher who will demonstrate some eye-opening frustration.

Contrary to WTS teaching, the Bible does not prohibit blood transfusions. Witnesses like to say that transfusions are the same thing as eating blood. They often use the analogy of drinking alcohol and transfusions alcohol directly into the veins to support this idea. Would your doctor who had told you to abstain from drinking alcohol be upset if you had alcohol injected into your bloodstream. Why yes of course. But the analogy falls apart when you ask….Would your doctor, who had instructed you to abstain from meat be upset if you had a liver transplant? No because that life saving transplant would not be disobeying his instruction.

Moreover a blood transfusion is also an organ transplant. You may remember that the Watchtower outlawed all organ transplants from 1967 to 1980 when Jehovah apparently changed his mind on the subject. How many people suffered or died from obeying the Watchtower's medical quackery. What the Watchtower still does not want people to know is that with every major organ transplant billions of white blood cells are passed from donor to recipient. There are 12 times the number of white blood cells found in organs than in the bloodstream. Interestingly millions of white blood cells pass from mother to child when breastfeeding. Apparently Jehovah does not operate by the same rules as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Here are some questions and arguments I put together.

Blood Questions Basic

Where does the Bible outlaw Blood Transfusions? (Acts 15:29)

Why do you think aren't Orthodox Jews bothered by transfusions?

Could it be that the dietary laws in Acts 15 were temporary, designed to help unify Jews and Gentiles.

a. Which components of blood are acceptable and which ones are not? What is the scriptural basis for this distinction? (red cells, white cells, platelets, plasma are all banned)

b. Why plasma? Why is plasma (55% of blood volume) unacceptable when all of its elements are on the WTS acceptable list? Plasma is made up of 92 % water, albumin and fibrinogen proteins. What's the problem? It's like saying you can eat bread, cheese, mayo separately, but you can't eat a cheese sandwich.

c. Why white blood cells? Why are white blood cells banned when 97 percent of the white cells are not found in the blood stream but in organ tissues that are permitted by the WTS to transplant? Of course billions are transferred with every major transplant. By the way,12 times more white blood cells are found in a mother's milk than in the blood. Millions are passed from mother to child at every feeding. Seems Jehovah doesn't abide by the same rules JWs do.

d. Why is it sinful to store whole blood? Where is the biblical exception that allows JWs to have their blood stored in tubes for lab technicians to test? By the way, only blood of animals that were slain by Jews under the law was to be poured out. No one was slain/killed to acquire the blood stored in blood banks. (Lev.17:13)

e. Why is it alright to use the life-saving fractions (eg. Factors VIII and IX) derived from the donated and stored blood of others when these products were stored immorally? And aren't hemophiliac Witnesses leeches when they take these blood products without contributing to the blood bank themselves?

f. Where is the rule found that it is OK to remove blood from the body to be cleaned..as long as there is no interruption in it's flow back to the body?

g. Why did it take JWs over 70 years to find these rules out when they are so obvious to JWs now. And didn't Jesus appoint the Faithful Slave in 1919 when JWs were still being encouraged to work for the Red Cross as alternative service and give and receive transfusions when necessary?

.

Now regarding the actual eating of blood:

h. Can anything that goes into the mouth of a Christian defile him? Ro.14:14, Mk 7:15

i. Assuming that there is no one around with a weak conscience, should Christians ask questions of conscience about meat served in the home of a pagan idol worshiper who is known to eat things strangled? I Cor.10:27

j. Why do you think Jews could eat animals found dead in their fields (unbled) with relative impunity. They would merely have to wash their clothes and be unclean until evening.

Leviticus 11:38,39 - "If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening." Also Leviticus17:14,15

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Vanderhoven7

SB

here is the completed New Approach focus list

"I… have loved you" Jn. 15:9, 12
Be "worthy of Me" Mt. 10:37-38
"Come to Me" 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
"I will give you rest" Mt. 11:28
"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" Mt. 11:30
I am "greater than the temple" "than Jonah" "than Solomon" Mt. 12:6, 41-42
I am "Lord even of the Sabbath" Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
Thus He says keep "My commandments" 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12
"You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" Jn. 15:14
"keep My word" Jn. 14:23-24
"He who is not with Me is against Me" Mt. 12:30
The angels are "His angels" Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands "His angels" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
The kingdom is "His kingdom" Mt. 13:41 and He calls it "My kingdom" Lk. 22:30
Jesus called it "My church" Mt. 16:18 and believers are "My sheep" Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are "His elect" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
Paul is a "vessel of Mine to bear My name" Acts 9:15
"all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine" Jn. 17:10
"My peace I give" Jn. 14:27 "in Me you may have peace" Jn. 16:33
"My joy" should fill you Jn. 15:11
"Who do men say that I am?" Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 "who do you say that I am?" Mt. 16:15
Receive "Me" Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48
Heaven and earth will pass away but "My words" will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33
Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19
"you belong to Christ" Mk. 9:41
Hear "My sayings" and do them Lk. 6:47
Jesus has "His own glory" Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is "glorified" 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31-32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]
"He who hears you hears Me" Lk. 10:16
Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary Lk. 19:37-40
Return "to Me" Lk. 22:32
Be "My disciple" Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to "be My disciple" Lk. 14:33 "you are My disciples" Jn. 13:35
"I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit" Jn. 15:26; 16:7
The Holy Spirit "will testify of Me" Jn. 15:26
We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that "the Scriptures… testify of Me" Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]
"You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me" Jn. 15:27
Paul gives "testimony concerning Me" Acts 22:18; 23:11
"the Son gives life to whom He will" Jn. 5:21
"seek Me" Jn. 6:26
Serve "Me" Jn. 12:26
"all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father" Jn. 5:23
"I am the bread of life," "of heaven," "of God" Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51
Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe in Him Jn. 6:36 [56]
Drink "My blood" and eat "My flesh" Jn. 6:53-54, 56
"I will raise him up at the last day" Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection
"The world… hates Me" Jn. 7:7
"I am the light of the world" Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
"I bear witness of Myself" Jn. 8:13-14, 18
"know… Jesus Christ" for "eternal life" Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]
"the Son makes you free" Jn. 8:36
"Abraham rejoiced to see My day" Jn. 8:56; "Before Abraham was, I AM" Jn. 8:58
Of believers, Christ said, "I know them" Jn. 10:27
"I give them eternal life" Jn. 10:28
"I am the resurrection and the life" Jn. 11:25
I "will draw all peoples to Myself" Jn. 12:32
"I will… receive you to Myself" Jn. 14:3
Be "Mine" Jn. 14:24
"I am the vine" Jn. 15:5
"without Me you can do nothing" Jn. 15:5
"Because I live, you will live also." Jn. 14:19
"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you" Jn. 15:16
Those who oppress Christians are "persecuting Me" Acts 9:4-5; 22:7-8; 26:14-15
"because they have not known… Me" Jn. 16:3
The Spirit "will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it" Jn. 16:14
"All things that the Father has are Mine" Jn. 16:15
"Whatever He [the Father] does, the Son does" Jn. 5:19
"the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me" Jn. 16:27
"If I will that he remain" Jn. 21:22
"I have overcome the world" Jn. 16:33
"I am the way" Jn. 14:6
"I am… the truth" Jn. 14:6
"I am… the life" Jn. 14:6
"I will… manifest Myself" Jn. 14:21

Scores of times Jesus uses the personal pronoun My with words like commandments, sake, words, lambs, sheep, peace, love, joy, voice, name, sayings, kingdom, angels, and church. Three examples powerfully illustrate the point. First, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day..." Secondly, "I know My sheep, and am known by My own." And thirdly, "Assuredly, I say to you... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." The prophets and John were the messengers; Jesus is the Message, the Way,

17

Another one that Jdubs miss

by HawayMan in

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Vanderhoven7

Re: the differences between erchomai and parousia.

Bobcat wrote: "The first difference between these two words is that erchomai is a verb; parousia is a noun. Erchomai expresses movement, parousia is an event. And thus, the two words can be used in the same context, such as at Mt 24:36-44. The verbs in the context describing Jesus' "coming" (vss. 37, 42, 44) are all part of the event, his parousia. (vs. 39) Parousia means "presence," but the way it is used in the NT and anciently gives it an added flavor that, to me, "presence" does not convey. It is more like an official state visit, with all that such a visit would include. In the NT, parousia is associated with Jesus rewarding his faithful servants and punishing the others."

My understanding is that: whereas, “parousia” invariably refers to the Lord's second coming at the consummation (world judgment) erchomia refers to the 70 AD judgment on Jerusalem because of their rejection of the Messiah.

The parables clearly suggest on this:

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do?
He will come (ἔρχομαι erchomai) and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.

Matthew 21:

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh (ἔρχομαι erchomai), what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

.

Luke 20:

13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

Luk 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

Luk 20:16 He shall come (ἔρχομαι erchomai), and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

Luk 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Luk 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Luk 20:19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

The timing on this is relevant:
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come (ἔρχομαι erchomai).

Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming (ἔρχομαι erchomai) in his kingdom.

Matthew 24:34 This coming in vengeance, would climax the tribulation and occur in the lifespan of Christ's own generation.

17

How would you respond?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

if you tell a jw that he or she is in a cult and they asked you why do you say that?

how would you respond?.

Vanderhoven7

This might help

https://www.quora.com/Did-Jehovahs-Witnesses-enjoy-the-convention-online-I-know-I-did/answer/Juli-Vetter?ch=8&oid=303565930&share=5465b46d&srid=f7CQl&target_type=answer

18

Triumph

by WTDeserter in

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Vanderhoven7

Right Ding.....I forgot about him.

Did you know that Adam and Eve played baseball?

They dropped the ball in the big inning.

18

Triumph

by WTDeserter in

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Vanderhoven7

Do you know who the smallest man in the Bible was?

Some think it was Kneehighamiah ..... but it was actually the Phillipian jailer....because he slept on his watch.

46

The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

Vanderhoven7

Who are Biden's advisors? They should be parachuted into Kabul to support the rest of the stranded Americans.