Posts by Vanderhoven7

52

Free Will - Does It or Does It Not Exist?

by truth_b_known in

being born-in and raised as one of jehovah's witnesses i remember a common theme or phrases used by the watchtower in its theory of why things are the way they are -.

jehovah created humans.

jehovah created humans as free moral agents.

Vanderhoven7

Try, "I had no choice" in a court of law.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

@ Fisherman

To that evil generation the sign that Jesus gave to his disciples wasn’t a sign for them but it was for his disciples.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Jesus was warning the disciples when and where to flee what the evil generation would experience.

You might benefit by looking at how many times God changed His mind about who the generation applied to.

1897 - “ good and evil living in 1914" Studies in the Scriptures Vol 4 pp.602,603

1927 - “the anointed" The irresistible conclusion therefore is that Jesus referred to the new creation [the anointed] when he said: “This generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.” Watchtower 1927 Feb 15 p.62

1951 - “worldly people" So it was on “this generation” that the accumulated judgments were to fall. Watchtower 1951 Jul 1 p.404

1962 - “good and evil” irrespective of whether such persons are righteous or wicked. Awake! 1962 Sept. 22 p.27 'This Generation Will Not Pass'

1995 - “worldly people" Jesus was not departing from his established use of the term “this generation,” which he consistently applied to the contemporary masses with their “blind guides” Watchtower 1995 Nov 1 pp.14,20

1999 - “worldly people" [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." WT. May 1, 1999

2008 - “current anointed class" As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day "generation" of contemporaries that will not pass away "until all these things occur." This suggests that some who are Christ's anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins." Watchtower 2008 Feb 15 p.24

2010 - “overlapping anointed class” "He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation." Watchtower 2010 April 15 p.10

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

In reply he said to them: “A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet."

Jesus outlined to his disciples the specific disasters that would precede the the great tribulation and finally the sign (abomination of desolation) for it's approach so his followers would flee Jerusalem at the right moment and avoid what would happen to wicked and adulterous people living at the time. So "this generation" refers to those who would experience the siege and onslaught of the Roman army.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

Excellent point Waton! The generation Jesus talked about would experience the aforementioned composite sign as well as the events of the great tribulation. So "this generation" on the lips of Jesus, like all other instances in the gospel refers to the contemporaneous mass of evil opposers.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

I started out reading the riot act to my students on the first day of school.

The only rule is respect (I always explain what that looks like)

Then, to Lighten the atmosphere, I added two related rules.

Rule 1. The teacher is always right.

Rule 2. When the teacher is wrong, refer to rule number 1.

Now substitute Watchtower for teacher. Whatever the Faithful Slave says at any given time is the truth.

11

Beware of "organization." - They said it!

by punkofnice in

watchtower, september 15, 1895: "beware of "organization.

" it is wholly unnecessary.

the bible rules will be the only rules you will need.

Vanderhoven7

Progressive understanding is exemplified best by both 180 degree reversals in the channel and also progressing back to previous understandings.

And here i thought that a new view of truth never contradicts an older view of truth, it merely progressively adds to it.

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

Re: Overlapping generation

That is not a new concept. But part of the original definition of generation taught by wt in the early 1900,s

documentation please

At present there is no wt defined time limit assigned to the olivette generation except that the second group of anointed will not die off before the great tribulation. Nothing more is officially stated or implied.

You mean other than we are in the last part of the last part of the last part....

11

Beware of "organization." - They said it!

by punkofnice in

watchtower, september 15, 1895: "beware of "organization.

" it is wholly unnecessary.

the bible rules will be the only rules you will need.

Vanderhoven7

God is a God of order.

God has always had an organization.

There can be only one true religion.

God rejected all the false religions in 1918

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

Why is it that every time the organization has changed the generation doctrine, it was always done to create more time?

PROGRESSIVE WATCHTOWER LIGHT ON “THIS GENERATION”

In 1968 the youngest of the 1914 generation were 15 years old.

"Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began. ... Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today." (Awake! Oct 8, 1968 p13)

In 1978 the youngest of the 1914 generation were clearly not babies

"Thus, when it comes to the application in our time, the "generation" logically would not apply to babies born during World War I. It applies to Christ's followers and others who were able to observe that war and the other things that have occurred in fulfillment of Jesus' composite "sign."" (Watchtower Oct 1, 1978 p31)

In 1980 the youngest of the 1914 generation were revised to 10 years olds.

"As indicated by an article on page 56 of U.S. News & World Report of January 14, 1980, "If you assume that 10 is the age at which an event creates a lasting impression on a person's memory," then there are today more than 13 million Americans who have a "recollection of World War I."" (Watchtower Oct 15, 1980 p31)

In 1984 the youngest of the 1914 generation were reduced to babies.

"If Jesus used "generation" in that sense and we apply it to 1914, then the babies of that generation are now 70 years old or older. And others alive in 1914 are in their 80's or 90's, a few even having reached a hundred. There are still many millions of that generation alive." (Watchtower May 15, 1984 p5)

In 1988 the youngest were babies that were born in 1914

"Likewise today, most of the generation of 1914 has passed away. However, there are still millions on earth who were born in that year or prior to it." (Watchtower April 8, 1988 p14)

In 1995 age no longer was a factor in determining the 1914 generation

“Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.” – Watchtower Nov 1, 1995, p.20.

Finally in 2010 the 1914 generation overlaps.

How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37. Watchtower 04/15, 2010 Article: Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose

162

A new generation of anointed that will not pass away.

by Fisherman in

obviously, the older “ anointed ” from 1914 died.

and because they were anointed, they hopefully went to heaven.

in the first century though, a newer generation did not replace the old.

Vanderhoven7

@Fisherman,

May 1, 1999 Watchtower article continued:

Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *

The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!

My Conclusion to the May 1, 1999 Watchtower article: If the overlapping generation is right (which it is not) then Armageddon will come during the overlapping lives of Watchtower opposers who turn their back on the divine purpose.

So my opposing grandad was alive in 1914 and I knew him quite well. Now I am 75 and oppose the organization as well. When I reach 105 it will be 2052. Will I be safe to decide then that the overlapping generation must be wrong? If not at least give me a date.