Vanderhoven7

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Posts by Vanderhoven7

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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Vanderhoven7

  The wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
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  13

  "JW's..Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peri...

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thanks to our german friend, we have received this article :

  july 8, 1998. appeared in awake!

  july 8, 1998. appeared in awake !

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  Vanderhoven7

  Eaton Haines writes:

  This is one of my pet topics, as my views differ from most religions who insist their faith, their religion is more important than all others. This issue of asserting greater eminence than others is wrong which was a constant source of annoyance for Jesus when his disciples haggled over the same issue.

  Luke found an interesting lesson Jesus gave to squash this huge issue, when dominant power crazed control freaks, just like Joseph Rutherford come along who will fight to the death over their obsession to dominate others. This has been an ongoing problem throughout history so has been no less common in the history of Christianity when murders have been committed by religious leaders, and all for the sake of money and power. Isn’t that what the Spanish, French and Italian Inquisitions were all about? Anyone who questioned Church authority, such as Galileo, or the Waldenses were crushed.

  The same is true of any who speak out against ideologies that are wrong, regardless of the merits or strength of the argument, such as Martin Luther, who opposed the Church charging for indulgences, for relatives to be released from purgatory. Martin Luther pointed out the Bible disapproves of religious leaders gouging unjust profits, yet coincidentally, those controlling revenues of the treasury collecting tithes, indulgences and tributes, also used those revenues to finance wars by raising armies and build navies, are the same who burnt opposers at the stake, for daring to challenge their authority. The same thing happens today when social media cancels any and all opposing their narrative of manmade climate change.

  That ego centric driver is one of the worst flaws the human condition, Luke realized he ought to include in his gospel, from the records he used to draw against of Jesus’ words to propound this vital aspect of what Christianity is really about, why it is not about appeasing testosterone fueled ambitions of tyrants. That is a pretty big problem in society, so Jesus dealt with it, not once but several times, when bullies threaten others with words and their authority, which with him, they do not possess so Jesus took hold of a child, as a fire extinguisher, when this monster raised it’s ugly head amongst his happened.

  Luke 9:46-50; . . .Then a reasoning entered among them as to who would be the greatest of them. Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a young child, set it beside him and said to them: “Whoever receives this young child on the basis of my name receives me [too], and whoever receives me receives him [also] that sent me forth. For he that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of YOU is the one that is great.” In response John said: “Instructor, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he is not following with us.” But Jesus said to him: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU.”

  The point?

  If it’s okay to allow others to take the lead because the bully doesn’t want to share power, then it is likewise okay for others who are not members of this exclusive club of Jesus’ disciples, to show some initiative as his supporter, because as soon as Jesus took the action of using a youngster to teach why and how it is more important to be child-like, (not childish) to the point it occurred to John to ask. What about that man who was expelling demons by means of Jesus’ name? John with his other friends as Jesus’ disciples mistook loyalty to Jesus with tyrannical conduct when they tried to prevent him.’ In reply Jesus could have shaken John’s hand for getting the point by responding by the way he did, not just to John but to those disciples contending with each other. This issue was addressed on another occasion at Matthew 20:20, so Jesus gave this command: “Do not YOU men try to prevent [him], for he that is not against YOU is for YOU.”

  How is it Okay to oppose a fellow Christian just over a minor issue of beliefs? It is neither loving nor Christian, so that obsession with control is totally unreasonable.

  Just because the International Bible Students recognized Joseph Rutherford for the autocrat and despot that he proved to be during the Great Depression in the 1930s, yet he had no problem financing the construction of the Messerschmitt 109 when Hitler required funding for Willie Messerschmitt’s fighter. Just because the Bible Students refused to be party to Rutherford’s bias toward the NAZI war effort, didn’t make them evil or wicked, when their only sin was expose Rutherford for what he really was.

  While the American brothers were suffering from the Great Depression, he was buying new cars every year, sporting brand new suits, bright red bow ties, he was investing the brother’s hard earnt donations to Hitler and when Hitler double crossed him by refusing to repay the extortionate interest rates Rutherford charged, Rutherford retaliated. He published damaging material against Adolf Hitler and imposed the neutrality doctrine, with devastating consequences for the brothers in NAZI Germany!

  Rutherford imagined his playing the same game with Hitler as the Catholic Church did over the 30-years' war in Europe, then Rutherford couldn’t learn from history. He ought to have taken a leaf out of their book when even Catholic Church, realized resisting Hitler would come with a very high tab, which even the Catholic Church knew they couldn’t afford to cash, by signing a treaty with Hitler’s NAZI Germany.

  The Bible Student’s refusal to condone Rutherford’s exceptionally bad behaviour was to their credit. They were more Christian than Rutherford as it proved when they did not return evil for evil. Mercy triumphs over judgement. The followers of Rutherford pursued vitriol to such as extraordinary degree yet on closer examination now that the dust has settled, exposed Rutherford’s hypocrisy in attacking the mainstream Churches, especially the Catholic Faith over past mistakes, but Rutherford in secret, did the very same things, when he funded Hitler’s war machine, financing the construction of weapons used to murder innocent civilians, no less than the holocaust in Poland to create living space for Germans with the invasion of Poland was intended and funded, from Rutherford’s investments he sought to benefit. There is nothing Christian about that. For me it was better the Bible Students rejected him.
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  42

  Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've never been a witness so i never left.

  graeme hammond writes:.

  for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Mark Jones writes

  I was a 100% devoted Jehovah’s Witness. So much so that I had read literally every Watchtower book and magazine I ever heard of. I even began to work my way through old Watchtower and Awake! magazines. I got as far as the stuff printed in 1956 before I left entirely. There is no one reason, but actually a cumilation of reasons that just piled up to make it impossible to stay in the religion:

  • Elders interfering and policing your life. Religion is supposed to be one’s relationship to God. Not people invading your privacy and checking up on you and encouraging members to snitch on eachother. I had elders visits for things that wernt even in the bible like questioning a Watchtower doctrine, growing a beard and even leaving a job I didn't like. If i didn't tell the elders the reasons for anything I did they’d get suspicious and visit my home for “a chat”.
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  • The lack of any real love. Considering that I belonged to a worldwide family all unified in the same belief, I had no friends. The congregations are full of social cliques and you’re not allowed to have friends who arnt Jehovah’s Witnesses. For the JW’s reading this who insist that there are not social cliques - it’s very likely that you’re in one and that’s why you dont see it. You’d be hard pressed to find any elder that imitate Christ, the brothers that do dont get appointed as elders for some reason. Any love you may receive is totally conditional on the basis that you’re a fellow Jehovah’s Witness. Should you stop attending meetings or leave the religion for any reason you’d find yourself actually shunned by these people - family included.
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  • It’s impossible to leave the with your reputation in tact. This was something that bothered me for years. Why were Jehovah’s Witness leaders so afraid of ex-members? Even ex-members who were kind, happy, successful and had bore no ill feelings against the Watchtower society? They’re so afraid of Jehovah’s Witnesses talking to ex-members, why? If you have “the truth” what’s to be afraid of? Surely anything a defector or a liar has to say can easily be refuted with truth should it not? The only way to leave is to commit some sort of “sin” and get disfellowshipped, or inform them that you’re no longer a Jehovah’s Witness. Both cases result in the complete shunning of the person who leaves. This includes your family. Mothers shun their children, children shun their parents, brothers shun their sisters. And then the Watchtower society has the audacity to claim that the person who left is the one who broke up the family!
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  • Information withheld from members. We all knew that the elders get letters and information that us regular members dont get to see. But it wasn't until 2 years before I left that I learned that the elders have their own secret book that everyone else arnt allowed to read. It’s called Shepherd The Flock Of God, (if you google it you’ll find a PDF online). In this book it gives many reasons for which someone can be disfellowshipped which most people are not aware of. It tells elders NOT to tell a person that they can appeal twice a disfellowshipping decision. It tells elders that if someone is inactive and turns up to a judicial committee then they can take them turning up as them acknowledging the authority of the Watchtower society and you can disfellowship them. This would result in that persons JW family ten shunning them even though they haven't identified as a JW for many years. Also, the Watchtower magazines say that a person is only disfellowshipped for an unrepentant attitude, but the elders guidebook says that even if they are repentant that have to be repentant enough to convince the elders in the judicial committee. And on at least one occasion I sat in on a judicial committee where one elder said “we can see you’re repentant, but we must disfellowship you to set an example to others”.

  

  • The religion is simply not true. There was a book published by a former Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body member called Crisis Of Conscience (there’s a PDF online if you look for it, and it’s on amazon). Throughout the book he reveals - with evidence - things that went on in the organization since it’s inception and the scandals that were covered up. Some things I was aware of as a JW but only knew half of the story, the other half of the story is quite shocking and revealing. After reading that book and seeing the evidence and checking it with Watchtower’s own publications there’s no way I could stay a Jehovah’s Witness and call myself an honest man.

  When an honest man is proven wrong, he either stops being wrong or stops being honest. - Anon.

  How do I feel about the Jehovah’s Witnesses? I love them. I genuinely wish no harm or ill toward any of them. It’s the Watchtower society that I take issue with. Jehovah’s Witnesses dont know that they’re being manipulated, kept in the dark, used and lied to every day by their leaders. The very fact that they’re not allowed to talk to ex-members or read anything that criticizes the Watchtower society shows that the Watchtower society knows it’s manipulating it’s members.

  It’s my hope that more people will evaluate and investigate their own religion and go where the evidence takes them. Facts about JW.org, the Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Truth is an excellent place to start.
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  42

  Why did you leave the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've never been a witness so i never left.

  graeme hammond writes:.

  for some years i’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: i was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, i felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and i was drained by their demands on my time.

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  Vanderhoven7

  I've never been a Witness so I never left. But here is someone who did. Graeme Hammond writes:

  For some years I’d had a growing irritation and disillusionment with the religion: I was getting tired of the pompousness, the arrogance and the control, I felt increasingly choked by their restrictions and I was drained by their demands on my time. I was frustrated by their blinkered vision and sick of everyone being treated as a child. The meetings and conventions were tedious and repetitive and the level of judgmentalism and gossip was sickening. We were all being watched.

  I was already missing meetings and making a pretence of field service. Even when I met people at their doors, I had no desire to try to persuade them to join because I felt it was unfair to entice them into such a constricted life that I hated.

  In the end it was “Crisis of Conscience”, the tell-all book by former Governing Body member Ray Franz about his life in — and exit from — the Witnesses, that made me realise I could just walk away. After just two or three chapters I became starkly aware that the religion was in so many ways fraudulent, with no more claim to being “God’s organisation” than any other religion.

  As each chapter unfolded, it became painfully obvious that I had been defrauded and manipulated for the entire time I had spent in the religion. Franz’s book showed plainly that it was a totally man-made, man-run organisation seized with an oversized sense of self-importance and a mean streak of vindictiveness.

  Once I read that book — and followed it up with books by Jim Penton, Robert Crompton, Tony Wills and others — the more I learned about the religion I’d given so much of my life to. There was no Armageddon, no “faithful slave”, no mathematical formulation of the “last days”, no hotline to God. And no reason for me to ever set foot again inside a Kingdom Hall.

  I never regretted leaving: walking away from it made me realise that I was reclaiming my life. Yet in a sense I did “look back”. The sense of anger and humiliation about the deception and control is not something you can easily dismiss. It burned me up for a long time, but today those emotions are a distant past.

  I was a cult member, but I escaped. And I survived.
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  76

  Scriptures That Don’t Fit WT Theology

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here’s a couple good ones: a. jesus said, “come to me and i will give you rest”.. why did jesus command us to go to him and not jehovah?.

  why does the bible say that the name of jesus is above every name?

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  Vanderhoven7

  Galatians 1:6-9 NWT

  6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed. NWT

  “Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. ” WT 1981 5/1 pp.17-18

  “What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12:” WT 67 12/15 pp. 758

  "That issue of The Watch Tower further stated: "in 1920,...Bible Students came to a correct understanding of our Lord's prophecy contained in Matthew 24:14. They then realized that 'this gospel' which was to be preached in all the world for a testimony to the Gentiles or all nations, was not a gospel of a kingdom yet to come but a gospel to the effect that the Messianic King has begun his reign over the earth."WT Feb 1, 2006 p.25
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  23

  JW visit...after 12 years out

  by Nobleheart1 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i used to post here under the name nobleheart but forgot the old password, so put up a new account (nobleheart1).

  was a jw (2002-2011), ended up writing a da letter.

  i am a christian (since leaving the org).

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  Vanderhoven7

  Do these ladies know that you were one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  If not I would ask them why Jehovah’s Witnesses are against blood transfusions.

  Watchtower Society (WTS) Blood Policies

  NOTE: JWs will always try to divert the topic to say there are wonderful non-blood alternative procedures that can be used instead of blood. My suggestion is that you say you just want to look at what the scriptures say about blood transfusions as wonderful as some of the non-blood procedures may be. Yes, avoid transfusions if possible (i.e. when there is not massive blood loss) but the question you are asking is why do Jehovah's Witnesses say the Bible is against transfusions.

  There are some things I don't understand about your religion:

  1a. Could you explain why JWs believe blood transfusions are unscriptural? (Acts15:29)

  1b. Does Acts 15 mention blood transfusions? (It's implied) Is it implied or are you extrapolating? (Abstain means to abstain!)

  1c. Is it possible that the three dietary restrictions in Acts 15 were temporary; to avoid offending Jewish Christians? Note: regarding food offered to idols: In 1Cor 8 Paul explains clearly that a brother who eats food sacrificed to idols commits no sin except if he risks stumbling his brother.

  1d. Why do you think Orthodox Jews have no problem with blood transfusions?

  1e. Do you think a doctor would be upset if he told a patient to abstain from alcohol – but found out he was using rubbing alcohol on his skin? (objection external vs internal)

  1f. OK would a doctor who told a patient to abstain from meat be upset if the patient later had an liver transplant? (???) Note: A blood transfusion is actually an organ transplant.

  2a. Would a blood transfusion be acceptable to Witnesses if it was their own blood that was stored for transfusion? (No!) Why not? (it's sinful to store blood; it must be poured out)

  Note: This OT rule was for animals the Jews killed themselves to show respect for the life taken. No one was killed to obtain blood for transfusion.

  2b. Are JWs permitted to have blood tests? If it is sinful to store blood, where is the biblical exception that allows JWs to have their blood stored in tubes for lab technicians to test? (only temporarily stored)

  2c. Are JWs permitted to have dialysis? The blood must leave the body to be cleaned, so shouldn't that blood be poured out? (Dialysis is OK because the blood is in a continuous flow back to the body) Where is the rule found that it is OK to remove blood from the body to be cleaned..as long as there is no interruption in it's flow back to the body?

  2d. Is it permitted for hemophiliac JWs to use blood clotting fractions VIII and IX which are derived from the donated blood of others? Is it alright to profit from the sinful actions of others? Let's say a group held a strip-a-thon to gain money for the WTS, could Jehovah's Witnesses accept that money in good conscience? (No) So why is it OK to accept products from immorally stored blood? Also aren't Witnesses leeches when they take these blood products without contributing to the blood bank themselves?

  3a. Which components of blood are acceptable to Jehovah and which ones are not? (the 4 major components disallowed are red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets and plasma) What is the scriptural basis for this distinction?

  3b. Why is plasma (55% of blood volume) unacceptable when all elements and fractions in plasma are on the WTS acceptable list? Plasma is made up of 92 % water, plus albumin and fibrinogens and other proteins. So what's the problem? If plasma is made up of entirely acceptable elements – why ban it's use. It's like saying you can eat cheese, bread, lettuce and mayo separately, but you can't eat a cheese sandwich.

  3c. Why are white blood cells banned when 97 percent of the white cells are not found in the blood stream but in organ tissues that are permitted by the WTS to transplant? Note: billions of white blood cells are transferred with every major organ transplant.

  3d. Why are white blood cells banned when 12 times more white blood cells are found in a mother's milk than in the blood stream? Millions are passed from mother to child at every feeding? Seems that Jehovah doesn't abide by the same rules JWs do.

  3e. Do you believe blood is always sacred to God? (Yes) If a Jew had bled some blood from an animal without killing the animal, would the extracted blood have been acceptable as a sacred sacrifice to God? (blood is sacred because it symbolizes life) Is a symbol of life (blood) more valuable than the life that it symbolizes?

  4a. Now regarding the actual eating of blood: Can anything that goes into the mouth of a Christian defile him? Ro.14:14 (???)

  4b.Assuming that there is no one around with a weak conscience, should Christians ask questions of conscience about meat served in the home of a pagan idol worshiper who is known to eat things strangled? I Cor.10:27

  4c. Why do you think Jews could eat animals found dead in their fields (unbled) with relative impunity. They would merely have to wash their clothes and be unclean until evening.

  Levitcus 11:38,39 - "If an animal that you are allowed to eat dies, anyone who touches its carcass will be unclean till evening. Anyone who eats some of its carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening. Anyone who picks up the carcass must wash their clothes, and they will be unclean till evening." (see also Leviticus 17:15)

  Note: It took JWs over 70 years (right up to 1945) to find these rules restricting blood use when they are so obvious to JWs now. It's interesting that Jesus appointed the F&DS in 1919 when JWs were still being encouraged to work for the Red Cross as alternative service and give and receive transfusions when necessary?
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  362

  Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

  he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

  the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

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  Vanderhoven7

  Pastor Russell was convinced that the second advent took place in October of 1874.

  Then he added 3 and half years and came up with 1878 as the time that Jesus began ruling as king.

  Since that time it has been emphatically manifest that the time had come in A.D. 1878 when kingly judgment should begin at the house of God. It is here that Rev. 14:14-20 applies, and our Lord is brought to view as the Reaper crowned. The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord – the time of his taking to himself his great power to reign, which in the prophecy is closely associated with the resurrection of his faithful, and the beginning of the trouble and wrath upon the nations. – The Time Is At Hand , 1902, page 239. view

  Believe it or not, his date is accurate.

  According to Revelation, 3 and a half times = 1260 days

  Then 1 time = 360 days, the length of a prophetic year

  2,520 360 day prophetic years = 2,484 solar years

  Count 2,484 solar years from 607 BCE and you arrive at 1878 - the very year Russel determined that Jesus was enthroned.

  The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses needs to take a look at this and repent. The overlapping generation works with this date as well.

  This proves that Pastor Russell was right all along and that he alone is the Faithful Slave and is still guiding the Dawn from beyond the veil.

  Three cheers for The Dawn Bible Students; the only ones who did not apostatize from the truth!
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  33

  July 2023 Study Watchtower - Great Tribulation is coming soooooooooooooon!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  is this the "great tribulation" which jesus warned he would bring upon the corrupt christian congregations worldwide, (revelation 2:22; 7:14) or is it the same 1st century g.t.

  which he said would never occur again?

  (matthew 24:21).

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  Vanderhoven7

  The synoptics support that the great tribulation Jesus spoke about would be an unrepeatable local event.

  Matthew 24:15-21 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:

  15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

  
  

  Mark 13:14-19 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:

  14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

  
  

  Luke 21:20-24 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:

  20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
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  33

  July 2023 Study Watchtower - Great Tribulation is coming soooooooooooooon!

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  is this the "great tribulation" which jesus warned he would bring upon the corrupt christian congregations worldwide, (revelation 2:22; 7:14) or is it the same 1st century g.t.

  which he said would never occur again?

  (matthew 24:21).

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  Vanderhoven7

  The Great Tribulation described in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It was local (Judea, Jerusalem), affecting the Jewish nation culminating in either slaughtered or dispersion among the nations in slavery. Check out Ralph Woodrow's article THE GREAT TRIBULATION — FUTURE OR FULFILLED?

  Matthew: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened” (24:21, 22).

  Mark: “For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days” (13:19, 20).

  Luke: “For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled . . . for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles” (21:22-24).

  Unless we completely ignore the setting, it is evident that the tribulation mentioned here is that which was to come upon the people of Jerusalem and Judea — tribulation which would result in the destruction of the city and temple. As we have seen, Jesus spoke of various things that would come to pass first — wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, etc. None of these would be the sign of the impending desolation. But when they would see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then they would know that the desolation was nigh, and they should flee into the mountains. Why? “For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION”, wrote Matthew. Luke’s account says: “For then shall be GREAT DISTRESS in the land [Judea], and wrath upon this people [the Jews]. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles.”

  According to the scriptures, the “great tribulation” of which Christ spoke was to bring great affliction, distress, and wrath upon the Jews and destruction upon their city and temple.
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  33

  " Millions Now Living Will Never Die" Ray Franz Thoughts from " Crisis of C "

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  of course this has been hashed and re-hashed as all of you know the feb. 15th wt is re-directing jw's to read the title of rutherford's talk as " millions now living may never die.

  " however in reading crisis of conscience a second time - i found it interesting to see what ray franz said about this quote.. remember he wrote this book in 1983 , so keep it in mind when reading his quotes about this " millions " quote.

  on pg.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Here for the original text.

  • http://books.google.com/books?id=uFn7PQJeorwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Millions+Now+Living+Will+Never+Die&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=6#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    Yes millions in 1922 would never die because the end was coming in 1925.