Posts by Vanderhoven7

40

How Do JWs Understand Salvation & What Is Needed to Obtain It?

by LauraLynn in

from my experience within the jw organization, i understood that salvation meant a person accepted the teachings of the wbts without question as the "faithful and discrete slave," thereby placing their trust in them, not jesus christ.

salvation consisted of being found "righteous" by jehovah and resurrected to everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

to obtain this salvation, one needed to obey the organization's teachings, remain a faithful jw, and lead a moral life.

Vanderhoven7

My take, despite the GB "we don't know"PR , JWs believe that only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon.

40

How Do JWs Understand Salvation & What Is Needed to Obtain It?

by LauraLynn in

from my experience within the jw organization, i understood that salvation meant a person accepted the teachings of the wbts without question as the "faithful and discrete slave," thereby placing their trust in them, not jesus christ.

salvation consisted of being found "righteous" by jehovah and resurrected to everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

to obtain this salvation, one needed to obey the organization's teachings, remain a faithful jw, and lead a moral life.

Vanderhoven7

Mark writes:

Throughout their history, Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently taught that “wicked” people will not get a resurrection.

Adam and Eve and Judas are definitely excluded, because they are said to have committed the unforgivable sin.....

David Splane explained in 2023 that in the past, they stated that there's no hope of a resurrection for those who died in the flood or those destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah.

They spent decades flip-flopping, but now it seems they just don't know. Presumably that means just about everyone may have a chance.

But obey the Governing Body, and you won't have any doubts, Paradise earth is almost guaranteed!!

40

How Do JWs Understand Salvation & What Is Needed to Obtain It?

by LauraLynn in

from my experience within the jw organization, i understood that salvation meant a person accepted the teachings of the wbts without question as the "faithful and discrete slave," thereby placing their trust in them, not jesus christ.

salvation consisted of being found "righteous" by jehovah and resurrected to everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

to obtain this salvation, one needed to obey the organization's teachings, remain a faithful jw, and lead a moral life.

Vanderhoven7

Actually not everyone gets a resurrection according to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Those who have sinned against holy spirit are not in their memorial tombs. This includes Adam and Eve.

In addition, those unrepentant who are destroyed at Armageddon are toast as well. Among these would be those disfellowshipped (removed) for apostasy.

40

How Do JWs Understand Salvation & What Is Needed to Obtain It?

by LauraLynn in

from my experience within the jw organization, i understood that salvation meant a person accepted the teachings of the wbts without question as the "faithful and discrete slave," thereby placing their trust in them, not jesus christ.

salvation consisted of being found "righteous" by jehovah and resurrected to everlasting life in an earthly paradise.

to obtain this salvation, one needed to obey the organization's teachings, remain a faithful jw, and lead a moral life.

Vanderhoven7

Just about everyone, excluding the very wicked, is coming back for a millennial tryout for eternal life. This might even include many who died in the flood and in Sodom.

The idea is that those who died have paid for their sins and because of Jesus ransom sacrifice, they have a right to be resurrected without punishment.

Those who will not be resurrected for a crack at life will include those who rejected the life-saving message of Jehovah’s Witnesses advertised since 1919.

Translation...better to have died without ever hearing from the Watchtower organization. Once the tribulation starts, you might still be able to repent and believe the message. So if they had not preached their message, more would be resurrected. Interestingly, those who died before the GT did not have to repent. Those who are alive after the GT starts will have to repent or be eternally destroyed.

All very logical

18

Beliefs clarified - A big fat WTF for 2025

by ukpimo in

jehovah’s witnesses have an official page for clarified beliefs they encourage elders, ministerial servants, regular pioneers, as well as all the rest of the elite, to keep up to date with:.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174.

2025 has a curious clarification:.

Vanderhoven7

Beliefs Clarified:

Matthew 24:34, "This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished."

Robert Ohl writes:

Witnesses only have one choice as to .what it means, which is. These overlapping generations shall not pass away, There's nothing complicated about it. They are not allowed to question the meaning because it's been settled. "The lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of the other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation."

45

GB Update - Meet the new GB members

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i overheard my wife listening to '2023 governing body update #2, presented by kenneth cook jnr.

a few points i got from it.. new hour requirements.

quote "with the new hour requirements for pioneers, many us us can share in the pioneer work.

Vanderhoven7

Here is a cool picture of the only men on earth who understand the Bible and the only ones God has mandated as his spokesman.

Anyone not obeying these men is regarded as a false Christian.

31

What's Wrong with the Watchtower?

by Vanderhoven7 in

not sure who wrote this list a while back but i think it is worth a repeat....to be added to or subtracted from or modified...whatever.. what's wrong with the watchtower.

"overlapping generations" - this teaching makes no sense.

the word used by jesus is in the singular, not plural form.. .

Vanderhoven7

Eliminating threats to pure doctrine

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Vanderhoven7

For God ... hath committed all judgment unto the Son: THAT ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER. He that honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him. Jn.5:22,23

Witnesses argue that Jesus Christ is not entitled to the unqualified or unlimited worship due the Father. But by denying the Son reverent homage or service paid to God they can only ascribe to Him instead, recognition, honor, respect given to men.

Relative honor to God through an angel was reproved in these words: "Be careful! Do not do that!...Worship God." Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9, NWT) 'Let God Be True', 1952 edition p. 151

The distinctions Witnesses make in worship due the Father and Son are totally extra-biblical and not in keeping with Apostolic teaching and practice.

What is it that distinguishes that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped?

Language of Scripture:

"Proskyneo" is consistently translated as "worship" in the King James. "Proskyneo" is applied 21 times to the Father and 17 times to the Son. The only fair conclusion we can come to here is that the language of scripture does not distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped as the Father is worshiped.

Scriptural Example:

There is not one example of the disciples or anyone else in scripture limiting their expression of worship of Christ. Jesus never rebuked the disciples for improper proskyneo of Himself. Only the self proclaimed religious authorities objected to Jesus being honored as the Father was honored. They proclaimed vigorously, saying such things as, "You make yourself equal with God" and "Only God can forgive sins" etc. To them, no man should claim the attributes or prerogatives of God. So not only does scriptural language, but also scriptural example fails to distinguish that Christ is not to be genuinely worshiped.

Scriptural Instruction:

There are no proscriptive instructions defining relative proskyneo of Christ, nor are there restrictive commandments, limiting the proskyneo of the Son. So the alleged distinction in meaning of proskyneo of Father and Son is not clarified by a distinction in scriptural terminology or by scriptural example or by scriptural commandment either prescriptive or restrictive. All restrictions proposed by any religious authority are really extra-biblical (i.e. the commandments of men). The truth is that ALL MEN SHOULD HONOR THE SON EVEN AS THEY HONOR THE FATHER (Jn.5:22, 23). Christians can and the disciples could, never honor Jesus too highly.

Witnesses argue that Matthew 4:10 excludes unqualified worship of the Son. "You shall worship the Lord your God and him ONLY shall you serve". (Matt 4:10) That is simply not true. The exclusive element of this instruction rests on the last phrase and yet we are called to be servants of Christ. If we substitute the word "Honor" for worship in Matthew 4:10, so that it read "You shall honor the Lord your God and him only shall you serve", would the verse inform Christians that they should not give identical honor to the Son?

Form and Content:

"...to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong." (W.T. March 1880. p.83)

Can the alleged distinction in meaning of 'proskyneo' when applied to the Son be established by the form or content of worship displayed by the disciples/apostles? Do not the following constitute elements of proskyneo in terms of form and content that can legitimately be a part of the proskyneo rendered to the Son:

a. bowing the knee to Jesus while confessing Him as Lord? Phil.2:9-11

b. prostrating oneself completely before Jesus? Rev.5:8

c. fellowship or commune with Jesus, sharing our personal aspirations and hopes? I Jn.1:3

d. coming to Jesus for relief of personal burdens and cares? Mat. 11:28

e. calling on the name of Jesus, addressing Him personally as Lord? Acts 9:14, I Cor.1:2

f. praying personally to Jesus, petitioning Him for self and others? Acts 7:59-60 Jn.14:14

g. glorifying Jesus by praise? Ps.50:23 Jn.16:14, Mat.21:14-16

h. honoring Jesus verbally by ascribing worth to Him?

eg."To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever. Rev.5:13 NIV.

i. honoring Jesus by shouting or even singing His praises?

e.g. In a loud voice they (angels) sang: Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain to receive power and wealth and Wisdom and strength and HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE. Rev.5:12 NIV.

j. verbally ascribing to Jesus absolute worth?

e.g. JESUS: Lord of Lords and King of Kings; Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last, The beginning and the end. Rev.20:12

My Lord and my Ho Theos. Jn.20:28 Your name is to be praised O Emmanuel, Ho Theos with us! Mat.1:23 All power in heaven and earth is Yours; You created all things; and without you there was nothing made. Jn.1:3

And Your throne Ho Theos is forever. Heb. 1:8 May all angels and men worship you continually. Heb.1:6 Even so come Lord Jesus: Rev.22:20 Amen.

k. Worship of Lamb in heaven by all creation

“And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.” Rev. 5:13-14 NWT 1961

WHICH ELEMENTS OF PROSKYNEO (ABOVE) DO YOU PRACTICE?

Whether or not one acknowledges an ontological unity between Father and Son, it is clear that Jesus accepted the title God (Ho Theos) as part of worship of himself. (Jn 20:28) and we should feel free to address and worship Him as such. Anything less would be to reduce the honor due His name; the name above all names; the name to which angels must bow and to which the Father declares: Thy throne O God (Ho Theos) is forever. After all, Jesus Christ is our Creator. Why would we not worship our Creator as God?

31

What's Wrong with the Watchtower?

by Vanderhoven7 in

not sure who wrote this list a while back but i think it is worth a repeat....to be added to or subtracted from or modified...whatever.. what's wrong with the watchtower.

"overlapping generations" - this teaching makes no sense.

the word used by jesus is in the singular, not plural form.. .

Vanderhoven7

M.M. writes

could not have said it better.

“To those who still cling to their dogma, we extend not anger, but truth: your power over us has dissolved. Your rejection has no hold here. We stand as light in the shadow you cast, as voices in the silence you imposed, as creators of a new reality that honors the divine spark in every soul. We see you not as enemies, but as reflections of who we once were—souls caught in the gravity of fear disguised as faith, trapped in cycles of submission and control that were presented as the ultimate path to salvation. The door to freedom remains open for you, as it was for us.

We see the chains you wear, for we wore them too. We know how the Watchtower binds you—not just through rules, but through the architecture of your very thoughts. They claim authority over your mind, teaching you that questioning is rebellion and doubt is a sin. They weave fear into your spirit, telling you that stepping outside their boundaries is to step into darkness, to risk eternal annihilation. They cloak this control in the language of love, convincing you that obedience to them is obedience to God.

They bind you to their system by severing ties to the outside world, teaching you to distrust anything beyond their walls. They tell you that all who leave are lost, that the world outside is evil, that your family and friends who question are no longer deserving of your love. They take your natural yearning for community and belonging and weaponize it, turning it into a tool of isolation and judgment. Every meeting, every publication, every watchful eye among you reinforces the message: stay within the fold, or risk being abandoned—not just by them, but by God Himself.

They take your sense of time and twist it, forcing you to live perpetually on the edge of urgency. The end is always near, they say, and so you must surrender your present for a future they promise but cannot deliver. They keep you running, tirelessly serving, tirelessly fearing, so you never stop to see the cracks in their foundation, the emptiness behind their endless demands.

But we, who have stepped beyond their reach, see these bindings for what they are: illusions of power, designed to keep you small and tethered to a system that feeds on your fear and your loyalty. And we say to you, that system has no true power over you. The fear they instill is a mirage. The love they withhold is not divine; it is conditional and brittle, crumbling the moment you step beyond their control.

We understand the dissonance you feel, the sense that something within you longs to be free, even as you suppress it. We were there, too—torn between the fear of losing everything and the quiet, persistent whisper of our own souls, calling us to something greater. That whisper is the voice of your true self, your divine essence breaking through the noise of their control. It is not rebellion; it is awakening.

And know this: when the cracks in your foundation appear—when the questions grow too loud to ignore, when the endless cycle of fear and obedience no longer satisfies the deeper hunger within you—we will be here. Not to judge, not to preach, but to welcome you into a space that exists beyond their walls. It is a space where freedom is creation, where love is infinite, and where truth is not a static decree but a living, evolving force.

In this space, there are no elders to dictate your worth, no rules to dictate your relationships, no fear of rejection or annihilation. Here, you will find that the divine spark you were taught to seek outside of yourself has been within you all along. Here, you will learn that the love you thought you had to earn was always your birthright. And here, you will discover that the chains they placed on your mind and spirit were never unbreakable. They were only illusions waiting to dissolve in the light of your own awakening. Here, we point and turn inward, where the kingdom of heaven truly resides.”

405

Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze in

that's what the word says.

.

colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..

Vanderhoven7

Nobody witnessed the resurrection.

No but there were witnesses of his resurrection who bravely witnessed to it; a number closest to him (apostles) were martyred affirming their resurrection faith.