Posts by Vanderhoven7

34

Judgment Day

by Fisherman in

a specific “day,” or period, when particular groups, nations, or mankind in general are called to account by god.

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“i solemnly charge you before god and christ jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead,”- 2 tim 4:1. seems like sins are not paid by dying or the ransom if there is a judgment in-spite of it.

Vanderhoven7

Thanks Fisherman

The Watchtower has decided Adams eternal fate. I thought that was up to Jehovah?

34

Judgment Day

by Fisherman in

a specific “day,” or period, when particular groups, nations, or mankind in general are called to account by god.

.

“i solemnly charge you before god and christ jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead,”- 2 tim 4:1. seems like sins are not paid by dying or the ransom if there is a judgment in-spite of it.

Vanderhoven7

According to JWs, will Adam be resurrected to judgment, resurrected to glory ... or will he not be resurrected at all?

How about people who died in the flood and those God destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah?

34

Judgment Day

by Fisherman in

a specific “day,” or period, when particular groups, nations, or mankind in general are called to account by god.

.

“i solemnly charge you before god and christ jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead,”- 2 tim 4:1. seems like sins are not paid by dying or the ransom if there is a judgment in-spite of it.

Vanderhoven7

I thought the Governing Body determined that one's death paud for sins committed in this life. Have they had new light

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Religion vs. The Gospel

by Chalam in

hello jwners,.

the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

Vanderhoven7

The gospel which Paul preached is the gospel by which we are saved. (I Cor.15:2)

Not only do Watchtower Witnesses mess with gospel content, but they also distort the nature of salvation the gospel provides. The nature of biblical salvation is justification.

There are three aspects of spiritual salvation in the New Testament

There is Salvation from:

sins penalty – Ro.6:23, 5:16 - Justification (past, accomplished)

sins power – I Cor.1:30, 6:11, Heb13:12 - Sanctification (progressive process)

sins presence – Ro. 8:30, I Pe. 5:4 - Glorification (future heavenly hope)

I Pe.1:3-4, Col.1:3-5

However, 8.5 million JWs believe a gospel which does not save or justify them. They redefine salvation as survival into the new earth where they can attain justification through 1000 years of obedience. After working all their current lives as Witnesses for this promised potential survival, those JWs who are raised from death will join the rest of unjustified humanity, i.e., adulterers, pimps, fraudsters, witches and warlocks etc. to work along with them for eternal life on earth. If only they hadn't heard the Watchtower gospel, they too could have had fun in this life and got a free pass to the new earth.

Now, here is the gospel truth. All Believers in Christ are Justified

Acts 2: 38-39 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 13:38-39 38 Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39. And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:21-26 21 But now God has shown us His righteousness; the law and the prophets tell us about it...God's righteousness comes to all who believe, just by their believing in Jesus Christ. There is no distinction. All have sinned and are without God's glory. They become righteous by a gift of His love, by the ransom Christ Jesus paid to free them. God set Him up publicly to pour out His blood before God to take away sin through faith, to show His righteousness...Now He wanted to show His righteousness, to be righteous Himself and make righteous anyone who believes in Jesus. (Beck)

15

What decade or era in human history do you like the most or would have liked to live during?

by Fisherman in

in the us, the 60s and 70s was a great time to be alive except for getting drafted if you wanted to be that age.

they were music years, greatest movies, fun, simpler and enjoyable days—also except for the d&ugs.

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Vanderhoven7

Anytime after 1914 since there has been less loss of human life due to earthquakes, famine war and disease...despite enormous world population growth.😶

Stats available "Gentile Times Reconsidered "

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Sea Breeze,

Reading Rev. 5:9 in context through the Watchtower lense

. (Revelation 5:8-10) The song of the elders and the cherubim.

Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals; For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation and have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

The 24 elders are symbolic of the 144,000 according to JWs.

Yes the 144,000 are sealed on the earth in preparation for the tribulation...but the fact that they are on Mount Zion suggests a heavenly post tribulation position.

20

Religion vs. The Gospel

by Chalam in

hello jwners,.

the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

Vanderhoven7

To assess whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses are preaching the same gospel as Paul preached, we must examine a number of factors including:

a. gospel content

b. nature of salvation

c. means of and criteria for salvation

d. hope offered by the gospel

Let’s look at content first.

Here is what Paul says to the Galatians in chapter 1:6–9 NWT

I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7. Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9. As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed. Gal.1:6-9 NWT

But according to the Watchtower good news we find:

What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached? What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12 WT 67 12/15 pp. 758

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“Note, however, that the message that Jesus said would be proclaimed in our day goes beyond what his followers preached in the first century.” Benefit From Theocratic Ministry School Education page 279:

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"That issue of The Watch Tower further stated: "in 1920,...Bible Students came to a correct understanding of our Lord's prophecy contained in Matthew 24:14. They then realized that 'this gospel' which was to be preached in all the world for a testimony to the Gentiles or all nations, was not a gospel of a kingdom yet to come but a gospel to the effect that the Messianic King has begun his reign over the earth. "WT Feb 1, 2006 p.25

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If God Has an Organization, What Is It? Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. (Luke 21:24) WT 1981 5/1 pp.17-18

Conclusion: The Watchtower is not preaching the same gospel the Apostles preached in the first century; instead they admit that they go beyond what Paul wrote and add extra content to the gospel. So what did they add?

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Both the 144,000 and the "Great Crowd") consist of members who are:

144,000 ........................................................................... GREAT CROWD

a. From every kindred and nation. 5:9..................................... 7:9

b. Servants of God. 7:3............................................................. 7:15

c. Divinely protected thru tribulation 9:4,5 /Acts 14:22..........7:14

d. followers of the Lamb 14:4 ..................................................7:17

e. Redeemed 14:3 .....................................................................7:14

f. Pure and Spotless 14:4 .........................................................7:13,14

g. Standing before the throne 14:1,3......................................./7:9

h. Before the Lamb 5:8..............................................................7:9

i. In His temple (naos) 11:1,2 ...................................................7:15; 11:19

j. Tenting/residing with God 2Cor. 6:16 ..................................7:15

i. Dressed in white robes 6:11 .................................................7:9

j. Wearing robes that are washed 22:14 .................................7:14

h. A heavenly class 14:1; 4:1,2; ..............................................19:1

i. Spirit begotten 7:3 I ..............................................................Jn. 5:1

37

114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

by Wonderment in

a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

he brought up this juicy source:.

Vanderhoven7

Amen Iriddle80

That is the hearing, then seeing pattern found throughout Revelation.