Posts by Vanderhoven7

this thread could be used regularly for people looking for specific quotations from watchtower literature.. right now i'm looking for a quotation which says it is the duty of clergy to point out errors in wt messages.. there is also one which says that religions which claim to offer salvation to millions should allow scrutiny..

Vanderhoven7

"It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false..."- The Watchtower Nov. 15, 1963 pg 688

Perfect Disgruntled. Thank you!

7

Looking for Watchtower Quotations

by Vanderhoven7 in

this thread could be used regularly for people looking for specific quotations from watchtower literature.. right now i'm looking for a quotation which says it is the duty of clergy to point out errors in wt messages.. there is also one which says that religions which claim to offer salvation to millions should allow scrutiny..

Vanderhoven7

g84 8/22 p. 28 From Our Readers - The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of people. Any organization that assumes that position should be willing to submit to scrutiny and criticism. *

Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you Boogerman!

7

Will unrighteous survive Armageddon new light?

by ElderBerry in

the bible says there will be a resurrection of the unrighteous, and now they say it’s wrong to hope unrighteous loved ones die before the end because that would be stupid.

yes it is stupid.. if identical twins both left the truth and one died just before armageddon and the other stayed alive then would he be killed only to be resurrected?.

this new light doesn’t make any sense i know they say we just don’t know.

Vanderhoven7

Right, neither inspired, infallible nor Spirit-directed.

7

Looking for Watchtower Quotations

by Vanderhoven7 in

this thread could be used regularly for people looking for specific quotations from watchtower literature.. right now i'm looking for a quotation which says it is the duty of clergy to point out errors in wt messages.. there is also one which says that religions which claim to offer salvation to millions should allow scrutiny..

Vanderhoven7

This thread could be used regularly for people looking for specific quotations from Watchtower literature.

Right now I'm looking for a quotation which says it is the duty of clergy to point out errors in WT messages.

There is also one which says that religions which claim to offer salvation to millions should allow scrutiny.

46

UN scandal

by inbetween in

lately i did a lot of reading regarding the un scandal, the org being a ngo for 10 years.

i tried to read both sides, the comments on jwfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.. and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanf and others.. while i am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.. .

however, considering the whole issue, i think it comes down to one question:.

Vanderhoven7

Deon Corley writes

The WTBTS was an NGO (Non-Governmental Organization) of the United Nations for nearly a decade from about 1991/92 until 2001.[1]

This is, in fact, something that the WTBTS still to this day, has not addressed with its followers and many of them remain unaware that it ever even happened.

It does matter, however, and it is not of any minor consequence as some apologists have asserted. As a letter from the United Nations dated October 11, 2001 states in part, “By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about U.N. activities.”[2] (bold and italics mine) Now, anyone who is familiar with the Jehovah’s Witness organization is likely also familiar with their book, “Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand”, their literature, and stance regarding the United Nations in general, and knows that they regard the U.N. as the “wild beast” spoken of in the Bible book of Revelation and they can hardly be considered as indicating support for the work of the U.N.

The whole situation is fairly well summarized here:

“Even though the Watchtower Society may have felt the need to associate with the UN as an NGO to gain access to the “reference works” section of the library that is unavailable to the general public through the Inter-Library loan system, this is hardly an excuse for the fact that they would have had to compromise their convictions by subscribing to the “Criteria for Association of NGOs” as the following evidence proves.”[3]

Their willingness to compromise their convictions in a secretive way while expecting their followers to take rigid stances on matters that the Society expects them to is hypocritical. The WTBTS is known for taking and making their followers take hard line stances on things such as the flag salute, military service, celebrating of holidays, birthdays, etc. They are known to be inflexible even to the detriment of their followers, like the situation that existed in Malawi during the 1960’s for example.[4]

That they are rigid and inflexible when they want to be and bend when it’s convenient for them to do so is bothersome to me.

Footnotes

[1]The Watchtower And The United Nations

[2]https://www.witforjesus.org/downloads/english/pdfs/jehovahs-witness/history/unfax.pdf

[3]The Watchtower And The United Nations

[4]The different standards applied to brothers in Malawi, Mexico and the Oath of allegiance

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

Vanderhoven7

@Rattigan350

Here is what Barnes has to say

1 Peter 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world - That is, it was foreordained, or predetermined, that he should be the great stoning Sacrifice for sin. On the meaning of the word “foreordained,” (προγινώσκω proginōskō,) see Rom_8:29. The word is rendered which knew, Act_26:5; foreknew and foreknow, Rom_8:29; Rom_11:2; foreordained, 1Pe_1:20; and know before, 2Pe_2:17. It does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament. The sense is, that the plan was formed, and the arrangements made for the atonement, before the world was created.

Before the foundation of the world - That is, from eternity. It was before man was formed; before the earth was made; before any of the material universe was brought into being; before the angels were created. Compare the Mat_25:34 note; Joh_17:24 note; Eph_1:4 note.

But was manifest - Was revealed. See the notes at 1Ti_3:16.

In these last times - In this, the last dispensation of things on the earth. See the notes at Heb_1:2.

For you - For your benefit or advantage. See the notes at 1Pe_1:12. It follows from what is said in this verse:

(1) That the atonement was not an afterthought on the part of God. It entered into his plan when he made the world, and was revolved in his purposes from eternity.

(2) It was not a device to supply a defect in the system; that is, it was not adopted because the system did not work well, or because God had been disappointed. It was arranged before man was created, and when none but God could know whether he would stand or fall.

(3) The creation of the earth must have had some reference to this plan of redemption, and that plan must have been regarded as in itself so glorious, and so desirable, that it was deemed best to bring the world into existence that the plan might be developed, though it would involve the certainty that the race would fall, and that many would perish. It was, on the whole, more wise and benevolent that the race should be created with a certainty that they would apostatize, than it would be that the race should not he created, and the plan of salvation be unknown to distant worlds. See the notes at 1Pe_1:12.

JFB commentary says

1 Peter 1:20

God’s eternal foreordination of Christ’s redeeming sacrifice, and completion of it in these last times for us, are an additional obligation on us to our maintaining a holy walk, considering how great things have been thus done for us. Peter’s language in the history corresponds with this here: an undesigned coincidence and mark of genuineness. Redemption was no afterthought, or remedy of an unforeseen evil, devised at the time of its arising. God’s foreordaining of the Redeemer refutes the slander that, on the Christian theory, there is a period of four thousand years of nothing but an incensed God. God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world (Eph_1:4).

38

The elders came calling. 😹

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

this afternoon just after lunch.

i spotted 2 of the nicer elders in the congregation walking up the drive.

i didn’t answer the door.

Vanderhoven7

Great response UTR. You are in control when you limit the conditions.

My guess is that they won't make the visit if they see you are not afraid of them.