Posts by Vanderhoven7

42

What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .

if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.

Vanderhoven7

My take:

Shouldn't Christians be encouraged to celebrate Christ's birth every day? Don't give the devil any day of the year. In fact we should celebrate everything about Christs life and accomplishments including creation, the incarnation, the virgin birth, his life and ministry, his atonement, his resurrection, his ascension and his promised parousia. All for us and for our salvation. These are the absolute greatest events in history.

And yet Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot praise him or even thank him for his grace and mercy and sacrifice on our behalf.

Pity

42

What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .

if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.

Vanderhoven7

Mark Jones writes:

If they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a Judicial Committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.

If the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry. If they decide the person is not sorry (which is common) they’ll disfellowship them for “apostasy” or they could claim that the person has disassociated by their actions.

Elders secret guidebook Shepherd The Flock Of God, chapter 12, para. 39 (page 92).
[1]

They will be announced from the platform as “no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” without telling the members that it was for simply celebrating 25th December and the congregation will understand that this means they’re supposed to pretend the person is invisible from now on.

The person would then lose all of their Jehovah’s Witness family and “friends” and they’ll assume that the person must have be disfellowshipped because they committed a “gross sin” and were unrepentant.

[2]

If they wish to return they’ll have to keep attending meetings for about a year while being treated like dirt and being gossipped about and then write a grovelling letter to the elders begging to be reinstated. The elders can decide to make them wait as long as they wish. It’s a real power trip for them.

Bit harsh wouldn’t you say?

Footnotes

[1]

https://faithleaks.org/wiki/documents/e/e1/2019-01-SHEPHERD_THE_FLOCK_OF_GOD.pdf

[2]

How to Treat a Disfellowshipped Person

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Vanderhoven7

@Rattigan

"There are millions of Christians who have not been anointed with holy spirit. Anointed, not born of and indwelt by the holy spirit."

Then they are simply professed Christians trying to serve God in the flesh as all religionists do. There are no exceptions. Jn.3:3

As for Romans 8:9 "you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in you."

Let’s not take the verse out of context.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9¶But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Do you have the indwelling Holy Spirit Rattigan?

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you....

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Are you are indwelt by and led by the Spirit of God? If so, this follows

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

So, have you received the Spirit of adoption; are you a child of God and a joint heir with Christ Rattigan?

If not, you do not belong to Christ and you are merely serving in your flesh and in your own strength as all non-Christians and professed Christians do.

18

First Church Service at 55 years Old

by SouthCentral in

jw
friends

i went to a christening at a church today, a black church.

it was an incredible experience!!

women were an active part of the service, and the people were very welcoming.

Vanderhoven7

Here is a taste of the UK churches Jan. Worth hearing again.

https://youtu.be/PUtll3mNj5U?si=G6dnNtVa4Fk97jqV

Be blessed 🙌 😇

24

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Vanderhoven7

@Rattigan

"There is no 2nd class according to scripture. Ephesians 4:4 mentions only 1 hope."

Yes, and there is no such thing as a Christian who is not born of and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Jn.3:3; Ro.8:9 Neither is there any Christian who cannot call God his Father or who is not justified by the blood of Christ. I Jn.5:1; Acts 13:39

144,000 is symbolic for the innumerable church of God. John hears the perfect number, Isreal squared and multiplied by 1000 meaning many and then turns to see the actual group in a heavenly setting of victory and celebration. This hearing and then seeing sequence is commonly used by John when displaying his symbols in Revelation. Eg. He hears the lion and turns and sees the Lamb.

It is never wise to base essential doctrine on Revelation or apocalyptic literature.

18

First Church Service at 55 years Old

by SouthCentral in

jw
friends

i went to a christening at a church today, a black church.

it was an incredible experience!!

women were an active part of the service, and the people were very welcoming.

Vanderhoven7

Glad you went to church after such a long time. Sounds like there is warmth there and people who are open to friendship. Enjoy!

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

Vanderhoven7

Mark Jones writes

JWs dont know the reason, and never will. Tony Morris could have been an apostate, a child molester, a wife beater or an alcoholic and the JWs would never be informed and still defend him to the hilt.

JWs I’ve spoken to assume that he “stepped down” due to ill-health. But that cant be the reason, because former governing body members have served as members while deathly ill but kept on the governing body despite not being actively involved in any way.

The only other times a governing body member has been removed and disappeared of the face of the earth were:

Leo Greenlees - Molested a 10yo boy.
[3]
Ewart Chitty - For having a homosexual relationship with his younger Bethel room-mate.
[4]
Ray Franz - Removed for eating a meal with a former member and defending the Bible over Watchtower.
[5]

It’s no coincidence that since Tony Morris “stopped serving in that capacity” that all these changes in doctrine and practice came in. Tony Morris was known, even within the JW cult, as a hardliner. In one of his last talks he boasted that JWs would “never” change their policy on disfellowshipping.

After his exit, they did.

Lol!

Footnotes

[1]

"Shepherd the Flock of God" 1 Peter 5:2 - Jehovah's Witnesses

[2]

Library - JW-Wayback.org

[3]

Why Leo Greenlees and Ewart Chitty were expelled from the Governing body?

[4]

Why Leo Greenlees and Ewart Chitty were expelled from the Governing body?

[5]

Personal Experience: RAYMOND FRANZ

18

The boy who has cried wolf - for nearly 140 years!

by BoogerMan in

"when will this hope be fulfilled?

the bible foretold events that would signal that god’s kingdom is about to begin its rule over the earth.

present world conditions match what the bible foretold.

Vanderhoven7

After 140 years and numerous false dates, they still believe Armageddon is immanent.

They have no shame saying things like:

“That now-operating kingdom in heaven will, within the twentieth century, cleanse the entire earth of wickedness. ...

Revelation 16:16 calls it the "war of the great day of God the Almighty," Armageddon. This war will come in the twentieth century. It will come right on schedule, as have the wars, food shortages, earthquakes and other events foretold. This generation will see its fulfillment." Awake! 1961 Feb 22 pp.5-8

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah 1971 p.216

The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our twentieth century. (w1989 1/1 12)

And Witnesses still think God is backing them. That's what you get for trusting the false promises of men.

20

The org's "new lights" - corrupting Proverbs 4:18

by BoogerMan in

proverbs 4:18 says, "but the path of the righteous....grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.".

the bible "light" doesn't get brighter - it never changes - it's a person's direction & course of life which gets brighter.. w11 9/15 p. 14 par.

15 - "when spiritual light on some matter gets brighter, do you try to understand the underlying scriptural reasons for the adjustment?

Vanderhoven7

Proverbs 4:18 says, "But the path of the righteous....grows brighter and brighter as the Faithful Slave gets ever increasing new light from Jehovah until full daylight."

152

Do JWs believe Jesus is an angel?

by slimboyfat in

i would suggest:.

the short answer is yes.. the longer answer is a qualified yes, with some caveats.

the short answer is yes because jehovah’s witnesses teach that jesus is michael the archangel, their leader, eldest and most powerful, and have taught this since the very beginning of the religion.

Vanderhoven7

@Duran

Save mankind from what?

Scripturally, as far as I understand, there are three aspects of spiritual salvation in the New Testament

Salvation from:

. a. sins Penalty – Ro.6:23, 5:1 called Justification (past, accomplished)

.

b. sins Power – I Cor.1:30, 6:11, Heb13:12 called Sanctification (progressive process)

.

c. sins Presence – Ro. 8:30, I Pe. 5:4 called Glorification (future heavenly hope) I Pe.1:3-4, Col.1:3-5

Will any who lived and died before Jesus died, will any of them be resurrected?

Since Christ died for all, the power of the cross to save sanctify and restore extends back to Adam and future into the next age. So yes, all in their graves will come forth, some to a resurrection of life and some to judgment as Jesus indicated.