Posts by MeanMrMustard

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

I said "pick one" because you were drawing distinctions between a literal God and a story about a fictional God. I said it doesn't matter - you pick. You. No forcing anything. If you pick a literal God, and this is a story about a literal God, he lied. If it's a story, then the fictional God lied in the story.

Lol

In fact, all my previous posts were playing along - as cheeky as they were - saying that it looks like God told a "white lie" because it was the only way to get Adam to behave (since he had no moral compass). Just like your mother telling you not to masterbate because you'll go blind.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

The truth is you folks are still acting the same way the Jehovah's Witnesses do. You demand I think like you and when I don't you demonize me.

No. Don't conflate 'holding the same opinion' with 'being logically coherent'. If you say God did not lie because He does not exist, it's a non argument when people are discussing the story as fiction. It's like saying the wolf didn't huff and puff and blow the little piggies house in because that story is fiction.

You haven't moved past the Watchtower religion's practices that you criticize. You only do that when it's convenient.

I'm an atheist. I think I've moved past the WT pretty well.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

That depends on your point of view and how you interpret the story.

Doesn't matter. Pick one.

God doesn't lie any more than God tells the truth. To do claim such things is to make God in the image of humans.

That's word salad. Utter nonsense.

To do that is to make an idol out of God.

More obfuscatuon.

Remember these are just stories.

So? It's just a story then. IN THE STORY, the character of God, completely fictional, lies.

NRSVue and similar translations it just reads "you will surely die." No mention of a "day." So where is the lie? They did die, right?

No. There is an implied causal relationship, such that if they had refrained from their action, they would not have died. You have turned the verse into no more than a phrase such as: "do not eat from it or the sun will rise tomorrow."

Unless you offer a different definition of "die" .....

Or did Adam and Eve ever exist? Does God exist?

If none of them exist, did anyone lie?

Yeap. In the story God lied.

The boy who cried wolf is a fictional story. Are you saying he didn't cry wolf because we cant point to a real boy crying wolf? Good lord.

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

So...

In conclusion, even if the story is borrowed... err... stolen.... err... culturally appropriated, it's still God lying about the fruit.....

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

A baby goat rather than a child. Although…

The point there was really that it is an inconsistent list of commandments

Maybe not... if you consider back in the day when you didn't have a knowledge of good and evil, well, God might decide throw in one of the old commandments for good measure. We already know (from new manuscripts) Adam probably had some goat issues.... Kinda like a "Oh and by the way, don't do this... the first guy had some trouble with it, but you should know better since the whole tree thing.... but I'll say it for good measure".

You know, its like getting a superman cape from the costume store and it says "doesn't actually make you fly" on a warning label. You just know someone did something dumb in the past...

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

‘don’t boil a kid in its mother’s milk’

This does seem like a reasonable requirement though...

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

@KOW:

Were you able to read the new manuscript, recently unearthed, that I had no hand in creating, documenting further interactions between God and Adam? I pasted the translation on page 6 of this thread.

Since you view these stories as a way of communicating deeper truths, not to be taken as literal history (a view I share), what sort of lesson do you see in the new manuscript text?

299

Who told the first lie?

by nicolaou in

this is a continuation of the discussion which sprang from an unrelated topic.. so according to genesis, who told the first lie?

god told eve that if she ate from the tree of knowledge she would die that very same day.

in response to that statement the devil told her she would not die.. eve ate from the tree and did not die.

MeanMrMustard

Jeez Jeffro - the dude says he actually hates you. Wow. I mean, wow. What did you do to him?

He loves me though. I'm definitely in the "everyone else" category.

52

What would happen if the religion just straight out gets outed as bad? The ORG admits to it and all the members get told to disperse

by Starlight.vee in

like the org just gives up and comes out saying that all of what they are saying is untrue and that there is no armageddon, nothing.

how do y’all think the the members still in it would react?.

there be a mental health crisis i perhaps.

MeanMrMustard

Isn't this question kinda like : "What if all our cats turn to unicorns and solved world poverty by knitting quality jeans?"

2908

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

MeanMrMustard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9HBTcgECQQ