Posts by Spade

47

Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

by honorsthesis in

hey everyone,.

i have been getting in on going debates with brothers in the congregation about the role of the governing body.

i feel that jehovah would not want us to blindly follow a particular g.b.

Spade

Every successful organization has an administrative position to keep the organization centered and united.

it-1 pp. 128-129 Apostle

Administrative position. In the formation, organization, and subsequent direction of the Christian congregation, the apostles occupied a primary position. (1Co 12:28; Eph 4:11) Although they were joined by others of the “older men” in such supervision, they formed a principal part of the governing body of the expanding Christian congregation, and this body was recognized by the early Christians everywhere as the channel of communication used by God to render decisions and direct the affairs of the congregation throughout the earth. (Ac 2:42; 8:14-17; 11:22; 15:1, 2, 6-31; 16:4, 5) This was possible for these men only because of the fulfillment of the promises about guidance by God’s holy spirit. (Joh 15:26, 27) Such help enabled them to recall Jesus’ instructions and teachings, to clarify points of doctrine, and to be progressively guided “into all the truth” revealed through them at that apostolic period. (Joh 14:26; 16:13-15; compare Joh 2:22; 12:16.) They made appointments to positions of service within the congregation and also designated areas in which certain ones would engage in missionary activity.—Ac 6:2, 3; Ga 2:8, 9.

je p. 26 Shepherding God’s Flock in Unity

The Governing Body consists of a group of anointed Christian men (13 in 1986), including 7 serving on the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society. These preside over the worldwide activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are not inspired by God and hence are not infallible, but they rely on God’s infallible Word as the highest authority on earth, and have a lifetime of experience in submitting to God’s will. Each has a record of more than 40 years in the full-time ministry with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

There's no “blind allegiance,” as Jehovah's Witnesses and the Governing Body adhere to God's Word as the highest authority on earth, as was just explained. Some former members have an unhealthy obsession with their former brothers as explained in Mathew 24: 48, 49.
w94 7/1 p. 11 par. 10 At Which Table Are You Feeding?

Consider, for example, the food dispensed by the evil slave class and the apostates. It does not nourish or build up; it is not wholesome. It cannot be, for the apostates have stopped feeding at Jehovah’s table. As a result, whatever they had developed of the new personality is gone. What motivates them is, not holy spirit, but vitriolic bitterness. They are obsessed with only one aim—beating their former fellow slaves, as Jesus foretold.—Matthew 24:48, 49.

It's this obsession that populates the majority of this forum with activity.

32

Scriptural proof of a paradise earth? Psalms 72:7; Isaiah 33:24

by Joey Jo-Jo in

a very close person i know is trying to show biblical proof that there are two classes, one in heaven and the other on a paradise earth, i think i have the celestial class 144000 covered.

i was given these two scriptures as proof that there will be everlasting life on earth.. psalms 72:7 - in his days may the righteous flourish, and abundance of peace till the moon is no more.. isaiah 33:24 - and no resident will say, "i am sick"; the people who dwell there will be forgiven their iniquity.. would anyone have any brackground on these two scriptures and what they really apply to?.

.

Spade

It only makes practical sense that God would have some purpose and intervene on behalf of planet earth. It was after the original Bible cannon was sealed that the earth was recognized as a spherical planet and was later named earth.

Let anger alone and leave rage; Do not show yourself heated up only to do evil. For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.

And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. Psalm 37:8-11, New World Translation

http://nlt.scripturetext.com/psalms/37.htm

Stop being angry! Turn from your rage! Do not lose your temper—it only leads to harm. For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the land.

Soon the wicked will disappear. Though you look for them, they will be gone. The lowly will possess the land and will live in peace and prosperity. Psalm 37:8-11, New Living Translation

19

THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ENCOURAGES LYING

by Hairyhegoat in

the wts informs its followers that they are not: "under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

" (insight on the scriptures volume ii p. 245).

"for the purpose of protecting the interests of god's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from gods enemies... this comes under the term war strategy.

Spade

"Rubbish! The Watchtower engages in deceit to alienate children from non-Witness parents long before the matter reaches a family court. It is taught in the Watchtower (members' edition) and it is the topic of talks at Assemblies. I am personally familiar with this, being on the receiving side of these tactics. Granted Ms. Wah and the other corporate attorneys become directly involved only in exceptionally high-profile cases, but the tactics they authored are in play whether or not the corporate legal staff becomes directly involved.
If the Custody pamphlet is being used less often, I suspect that is in large part because of the attention it has received. The non-Witness legal counsel knows about it, and acts quickly and decisively to preempt those tactics at the first sign they are in play. That often convinces the opposing counsel to change course and adopt more a reasonable approach.
As for who's attacking who, just read your Watchtowers and listen to the assembly talks. No other religion escapes the Watchtower's condemnation; no person but a Witness is worthy and moral. What determines if a father is the godly head of the household or a person to be "hated in the truest sense", with association reduced to the absolute minimum possible? Belief in and submission to the Watchtower Organization! That is what I call being "under attack" for the sake of a religion."

What's actually stated in the Watchtower society's literature that supports your claims as this is where Jehovah's Witnesses receive instruction. I don't subscribe to the malicious “secrecy” of some former Jehovah's Witnesses. It's opposers that deliberately invade religious freedoms in the first place during a child custody case.

g93 10/8 p. 15 Jehovah’s Witnesses Vindicated in Child-Custody Battle

INGRID HOFFMANN has been battling to keep custody of her two children since the middle of the last decade. An Austrian woman, she was born and raised a Roman Catholic. She married a fellow Catholic, and gave birth to a son in 1980 and a daughter in 1982. But in 1983 the couple divorced; both parents sought custody of the children. The father charged that the mother’s religion—she had become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses—would harm the children, deprive them of a normal, healthy upbringing. He cited such issues as the Witnesses’ refusal to celebrate certain holidays common in his land and their abstention from blood transfusions.—Acts 15:28, 29.

These specious arguments failed to convince. Both the trial court and the appeals court rejected the father’s claims and awarded custody to the mother. However, in September 1986, the Supreme Court of Austria reversed the lower court’s rulings. It held that these decisions had violated the Austrian Religious Education Act, a law that requires Catholic-born children to be educated as Catholics. The court also ruled that it would not be in the best interests of the children to allow them to be raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses!

What recourse did Ingrid Hoffmann have against such blatant religious prejudice? In February 1987 her case was presented to the European Commission of Human Rights. On April 13, 1992, this commission, which is composed of jurists representing various member nations of the Council of Europe, referred the case for a full hearing before the European Court of Human Rights.

The court ruled on June 23, 1993. It stated: “The European Court therefore accepts that there has been a difference in treatment and that that difference was on the ground of religion; this conclusion is supported by the tone and phrasing of the [Austrian] Supreme Court’s considerations regarding the practical consequences of the applicant’s religion. Such a difference in treatment is discriminatory.” [Italics ours.] It further noted that the Supreme Court “weighed the facts differently from the courts below, whose reasoning was moreover supported by psychological expert opinion. Notwithstanding any possible arguments to the contrary, a distinction based essentially on a difference in religion alone is not acceptable.”

By a vote of five to four, the judges ruled in favor of Ingrid Hoffmann and against Austria, stating, in effect, that Austria had discriminated against her on the basis of her religion and had violated her right to raise her family. Furthermore, by a vote of eight to one, the judges awarded her monetary damages.

This remarkable victory for religious freedom came just a month after another one in the very same court—the case of Kokkinakis v. Greece, which established that Greece had violated a man’s right to teach God’s Word from house to house. Lovers of freedom the world over rejoice when such attempts to suppress religious liberty are thwarted and personal rights to worship God and raise a family according to Bible principles are protected.

19

THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ENCOURAGES LYING

by Hairyhegoat in

the wts informs its followers that they are not: "under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

" (insight on the scriptures volume ii p. 245).

"for the purpose of protecting the interests of god's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from gods enemies... this comes under the term war strategy.

Spade

"Not divulging a potential victim's location to a criminal is one thing; misrepresenting the official WT stance on education, citizenship, medical treatment, and treatment of non-Witness family members, under oath affirmation in a court proceeding, is quite another. The Preparing for Child Custody Cases pamphlet makes it clear that Theocratic Warfare Strategy is to be used, though they avoid using that phrase publicly. The Watchtower Society not only encourages lying when it suits their ends, they all but demand it!"

Intervention for Child Custody Cases was only deemed necessary in instances where Jehovah's Witnesses religion has been under attack during child custody cases. If either side is going to twist a constitutional religion into a child custody case, both sides still collectively fold into a system that adheres to judicial law.

19

THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY ENCOURAGES LYING

by Hairyhegoat in

the wts informs its followers that they are not: "under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

" (insight on the scriptures volume ii p. 245).

"for the purpose of protecting the interests of god's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from gods enemies... this comes under the term war strategy.

Spade

Would you divulge to a rapist the location of your daughter? Of course they’re not "under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it." Use some common sense.

15

Increased promotion of 'worship' to the Faithful Slave in the Watchtower

by callitquits76 in

jw
friends

i have heard it said that over the past few months, the magazines have been filled with pro-gb garbage promoting complete obedience to the body.

can anybody point me to any examples?.

Spade

The December 15, 2010 Watchtower:

Among those “gifts in men” are the members of the Governing Body,who act in a representative way for the entire Christian congregation. (Acts 15:2, 6) In fact, our attitude toward Christ’s spiritual brothers is a major factor that will determine how we will be judged during the coming great tribulation. (Matt. 25:34-40) Thus, one aspect of the way we gain a blessing is by giving our loyal support to God’s anointed ones.

The “gifts in men” also include members of Branch Committees, traveling over-seers, and congregation elders—all of whom have been appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) These brothers’ primary responsibility is to build up God’s people “until . . . all attain to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.” (Eph. 4:13) Granted, like the rest of us, they are imperfect. Still, we bless ourselves when we respond appreciatively to their loving shepherding.—Heb.13:7,17.

If you read the corroborating scriptures, especially Matthew 25:31-40, it simply denotes respect and compassion to Christ's brothers:

“When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

“Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked, and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

“Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat, and I got thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ Then they also will answer with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them with the words, ‘Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ Matthew 25:31-40

This doesn't denote worship, but due respect and compassion for Christ's brothers. While most here will deny the above examples are Christ’s brothers, they're quite clueless as to who Christ’s brothers actually are, nor do they really care.

73

Why so many Atheist VS. Christian discussions here?

by mindmelda in

i notice a lot of the discussions seem to be atheist vs christian here.

or is that just my perception?.

but, do the other people who are neither just not care to debate as much or are there just fewer or them, or both?.

Spade

Both sides can't be right. This is more proof that ex-Jehovah's witnesses are clueless as to the nature of reality. After leaving Jehovah's Organization they collectively fold into a comfort zone that appeals to them; truth need not apply.

101

The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

by Spade in

http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

Spade

"Oh, so you're here to convince yourself. Cuz if you really were a jw you wouldn't be here.

Seems to me it's really not working for ya."

If it doesn't work for me you'll be the first to know. I can't say that at this point.

101

The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

by Spade in

http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

Spade

"That doesn't answer my questions. Are you here to convince us or yourself?"

I'm here to challenge opposing viewpoints out of personal interest. I don't expect to convince anyone of anything on an internet forum. Not toward conversion anyway.

101

The Danger of Credulous Research of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Internet

by Spade in

http://www.watchtower21.org/2011/02/danger-of-naive-and-credulous-research.html.

it's been my experience so far, that anything a person wants to find out about jehovahs witnesses, they can find out from jehovahs witnesses.

any and all information ever published by jehovah witnesses is accessible to all.

Spade

Well this wasn't very coherent. Why do I have to explain anything to you?

I know my reasons for being here. I'm not sure you know why you're here.

I'm here because it's a forum where you can discuss anything pertaining to Jehovah's Witnesses.