Spade

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Posts by Spade

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  10

  Higher Criticism and the WTS

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:donotshowrevisions /> <w:donotprintrevisions /> <w:donotshowmarkup /> <w:donotshowcomments /> <w:donotshowinsertionsanddeletions /> <w:donotshowpropertychanges /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="&#45;-" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; text-align:justify; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

  i have my idea why the wts waxes so strongly against higher criticism, so i would like to hear the views of others on this matter.. i do not want this thread to degenerate into a discussion on the merits or otherwise of higher criticism, but rather for this thread to explore the reason(s) why the wts has to be so adamantly against it.. as a clue to my own thoughts, i suggest that consideration should be given to the wts's silence -- as far as i am aware (and i am open to correction) -- on the subject of lower criticism (and other forms of analysis).. doug.

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  Spade

  The faithful and discreet slave has always conducted itself as an analytical lens that examines all things.
  
  However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16)
  
  “Higher criticism,” the numerous cyberghosts that run amok on the internet and exploit the imperfections of others rarely have a name and a face to criticize. When they do (e.g. http://www.freeminds.org/) identify themselves, the participants grossly contradict themselves while Jehovah's Witnesses speak in agreement.
  
  Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. 1 Corinthians 1:10
  
  http://www.freeminds.org/life-stories/bethelites/my-story-my-return-to-christianity-the-early-years-part-3.html
  
  My Story - My Return To Christianity: The Early Years - Part 3
  http://www.freeminds.org/blogs/a-gilead-grad-s-guide-to-leaving-jws/from-missionary-to-atheist-how-is-that-possible-part-2-all-about-evolution.html
  
  From Missionary to Atheist - how is that possible? Part 2 - All About Evolution | A Gilead Grad's Guide to Leaving JWs
  
  The list goes on...
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  21

  Malawi Party Card, Scans and comment

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am indebted to marvin shilmer for the info, on his excellent site.. link .http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/03/malawi-savage-betrayal-by-watchtower.html.

  i was so pleased to see the actual cards that caused all the trouble, after wanting to see it for so long, that i post it today.. first, the background in case anybody does not know the terrible events that happened.

  in the late 1960's to early 1970's jehovah's witnesses were cruelly persecuted and subjected to the worst possible beatings, rape torture and death.

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  Spade

  Only a sick minded individual would blame those striving to be politically neutral instead of blaming the totalitarian government. The problem lies with extremist governments that threaten civilians, not with those that choose not to comply with totalitarian governments. Would you also blame Rutherford for Nazi persecution? The United States Holocaust Museum does not.
  
  http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005433
  
  Initially, leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses sought to find a way to work with the Nazi government. In October 1934, the leadership sent a letter to the Reich government, explaining the Witnesses' core beliefs and their commitment to political neutrality. The letter stated that Jehovah's Witnesses "have no interest in political affairs, but are wholly devoted to God's Kingdom under Christ His King." German authorities responded with economic and political harassment. Witnesses who continued to missionize or who refused to participate in Nazi organizations lost their jobs and their unemployment and social welfare benefits, or were arrested.
  
  In response to Nazi efforts to destroy the group, Jehovah's Witnesses became an island of spiritual resistance to the Nazi demand for absolute German commitment to the state. The International Society of Jehovah's Witnesses fully and publicly supported the efforts of its brethren in Germany. At an international convention in Lucerne, Switzerland, in September 1936, Witness delegates from all over the world passed a resolution severely condemning the Nazi regime. The international organization also produced literature denouncing Nazi persecution of Jews, Communists, and Social Democrats, criticizing the remilitarization of Germany and the Nazification of its schools and universities, and attacking the Nazi assault on organized religion.
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  41

  Where does my DNA go when I die?

  by sabastious in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when i die my consiousness ceases to exist, but the matter that makes me does not cease to exist, it merely changes form.

  dna is where all the "data" that makes me is stored, so where does it go when i die?

  what smaller parts does it break down to over time?.

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  Spade

  You mean are your memories stored in the DNA of your descendants like in Assassin's Creed? No.

  For dust you are and to dust you will return. Genesis 3:19
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  15

  Have the rules changed for inactive people?

  by cognac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cause i see a bunch of inactive doing disfellowshipping things and its known by the elders and the elders aren't doing anything because they are inactive.... so, just wondering if the rules have changed, or there is more of a loophole somewhere that wasn't there before?.

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  Spade

  Considering some of the things that merit disfellowshipping, what is it that you see?
  
  it-1 p. 788 Expelling
  
  Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8) Mercifully, one promoting a sect is warned a first and a second time before such disfellowshipping action is taken against him. In the Christian congregation, the principle enunciated in the Law applies, namely, that two or three witnesses must establish evidence against the accused one. (1Ti 5:19) Those who have been convicted of a practice of sin are reproved Scripturally before the “onlookers,” for example, those who testified concerning the sinful conduct, so that they too may all have a healthy fear of such sin.—1Ti 5:20; see REPROOF.
  
  The elders aren't a police force. If a person becomes inactive, they don't represent a threat to the congregation. So even if they are committing some sort of disfellowshipping offense the elders don't necessarily take any action on behalf of that person.
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  61

  Are women more spiritual then men?

  by jam in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  before you women jump all over me, this is just a observation.. first of all at least in this country women out number men in religion,.

  across the board,(jw,s,baptist, catholic etc.

  ) you walk in any church.

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  Spade

  Most people here have inadvertently gutted out any sensory perception pertaining to spiritual matters and are physical minded. That's what happens when you go apostate.
  
  Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by [the] spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words].

  But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16
  
  But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong. Hebrews 5:14
  
  Try asking if anyone here prays. Spirituality isn't partial to males or females.
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  89

  Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.

  (john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.

  1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.

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  Spade

  In spite of the Watchtower Society's admonition to put spiritual goals ahead of material ones, the vast majority of publishers in my congregation make good money and some are wealthy. I do live in the River Oaks/ Rice University area but all of the congregations I've been associated with were financially solvent. They didn't get that way because the baptized publishers were undereducated. The rumor that Jehovah's Witnesses don't pursue higher education is a myth.
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  53

  Present some evidence for evolution...

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there's no evidence that can't be overturned and exposed as deception in the scientific community.

  jehovah's witnesses don't stonewall any new findings.

  we have degree regarding adaptation.

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  Spade

  deleted
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  23

  My Brother said: I need to get out of satan's santanic world and get back to the kingdom hall

  by Joliette in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please ask me why was my brother on the jehovah's witness official facebook page, telling the faithful dubs on there why he doesnt understand why he satan keeps calling him back to the world, and then talks about why he needs to start going back to the hall.

  then he gets on his facebook and talks about how gay people should die a slow and painful death???

  wtf.

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  Spade

  It's charming how so many people here air there family's dirty laundry online.
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  53

  Present some evidence for evolution...

  by Spade in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there's no evidence that can't be overturned and exposed as deception in the scientific community.

  jehovah's witnesses don't stonewall any new findings.

  we have degree regarding adaptation.

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  Spade

  There's no evidence that can't be overturned and exposed as deception in the scientific community. Jehovah's Witnesses don't stonewall any new findings. Popular evidence for evolution in a complex species (maybe someone can present something else). Background on Ring Species: Salamanders:
  
  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html
  
  Ring Species: Salamanders:

  
  
  Some critics of the theory of evolution argue that it doesn't convincingly explain the origin of new species. They say that members of one species couldn't become so different from other individuals through natural variation that they would become two separate non-interbreeding species.
  
  One of the most powerful counters to that argument is the rare but fascinating phenomenon known as "ring species." This occurs when a single species becomes geographically distributed in a circular pattern over a large area. Immediately adjacent or neighboring populations of the species vary slightly but can interbreed. But at the extremes of the distribution -- the opposite ends of the pattern that link to form a circle -- natural variation has produced so much difference between the populations that they function as though they were two separate, non-interbreeding species.
  
  A well-studied example of a ring species is the salamander Ensatina escholtzii of the Pacific Coast region of the United States. In Southern California, naturalists have found what look like two distinct species scrabbling across the ground. One is marked with strong, dark blotches in a cryptic pattern that camouflages it well. The other is more uniform and brighter, with bright yellow eyes, apparently in mimicry of the deadly poisonous western newt. These two populations coexist in some areas but do not interbreed -- and evidently cannot do so.
  
  By the time the salamanders reached the southernmost part of California, the separation had caused the two groups to evolve enough differences that they had become reproductively isolated. In some areas the two populations coexist, closing the "ring," but do not interbreed. They are as distinct as though they were two separate species. Yet the entire complex of populations belongs to a single taxonomic species, Ensatina escholtzii.

  ---

  
  Are ring species excellent evidence for evolution? No. They're not evidence for evolution in the slightest capacity. Vertebrates have degree regarding complexity. Viruses are wildly mutational, however, that is not true of more complex species. The more complex the species, the more static the genome. Things we learn, about the genetic variability of viruses aren't valid for more complex species.
  
  Ring species are best explained by intelligent design using a DNA substitution model.
  
  DNA replication, for biological inheritance, is a process occurring in all living organisms to copy their DNA. This process is "replication" in that each strand of the original double-stranded DNA molecule serves as a template for the reproduction of the complementary strand. Hence, following DNA replication, two identical DNA molecules have been produced from a single double-stranded DNA molecule. Cellular proofreading and error toe-checking mechanisms ensure near perfect fidelity for DNA replication. If DNA replication gets out sync at the reproduction level, it can prevent two species from reproducing.
  
  In phylogenetics, matching DNA sequences is often accomplished by firstly obtaining a nucleotide or protein sequence alignment, and then taking the bases or amino acids at corresponding positions in the alignment as the characters. A, T, C, and G represent a particular nucleotide at a position. Sequences achieved by this might look like AGCGGAGCTTA and GCCGTAGACGC.
  
  Assuming AGCGGAGCTTA is a DNA code necessary for reproduction (the complete substitution model would be much longer). If environmental adaptation has impacted the species at the DNA level and the DNA sequence AGCGGAGCTTA has mutated to ATCGGAACTTA, making the Ensatina escholtzii incapable of interbreeding with its common ancestor at the other end of the ring (genetically unidentical), the mutation for all practical purposes was destructive as macroevolution never progresses beyond this point. It would evidently take an intelligent designer to complete the process.
  
  Basically, we are still looking for an adequate demonstration of evolution in terms of being able to produce some sort of novel complex phenotype structure with function based on changes at the cellular level (genetic or epigenetic) from simpler lifeforms. Any test would have to show that the genetic structure wasn't the result of a minor genetic mutation. There are several challenges of degree regarding complexity.
  
  We have degree regarding adaptation. Creationists expect species to adapt to their environments just as evolutionists do. Are there limits to the degree of adaptation? Is the salamander going to develop new structures based on complex cellular changes so that we will no longer recognize it as a salamander (showing progressive complexity)? Or is this example of a ring species the limit of adaptation and genetic drift? If you answer the questions you will have no empirical evidence.
  
  The theory of common ancestry has to show a mechanism to derive complexity from simpler organisms. Vertebrates are extraordinarily complex at all levels of organization. How did they achieve this? What are the cellular mechanisms?
  
  A whole sequence of mutations would have to be identified and determined along these lines. You can apply any and all scientific methods to this salamander outside its natural habitat and it will still remain a salamander. Species are static and they stay that way.
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  172

  The impossible delusion of evolution

  by brotherdan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee.

  .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmgkrkj5la.

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  Spade

  But in your other post you were crying and renounced God because your wife had a seizure. Now you're renouncing evolution. Get your head together...