a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
"scholar" said:
I have for many years proven the reality of the Babylonian Gap by means of Bible Chronology.
Then, please fill me in. Prove from the Bible alone that Jerusalem fell in 607 BC. You always resort to clay tablets, show me using the Bible alone."
If the secular history is rubbish, the same can be said of H. Hunger's analytical observations.
a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
In relation to Babylonian chronology: Jehovah's Witnesses expand on their interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream vision in quite a bit of their literature:
Dream vision of tree in Daniel chapter 4. Again in the book of Daniel we find a close parallel to Jesus’ use of the word “times” with regard to “the nations,” or Gentile powers. And again it is Nebuchadnezzar, the dethroner of David’s descendant Zedekiah, who was given another vision interpreted by Daniel as relating to divinely appointed kingship. The symbolic vision was of an immense tree; an angel from heaven commanded that it be chopped down. Its stump was then banded with iron and copper and had to stay that way among the grass of the field until “seven times” passed over it. “Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it . . . to the intent that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind.”—Da 4:10-17; see 4:16, ftn.
Related to “appointed times of the nations.” The vision definitely had a fulfillment in Nebuchadnezzar himself. (See Da 4:31-35.) Therefore, some view it as having direct prophetic application only to him and see in this vision merely the presentation of the eternal verity of ‘God’s supremacy over all other powers—human or supposedly divine.’ They acknowledge the application of that truth or principle beyond Nebuchadnezzar’s own case but do not see it as relating to any specific time period or divine schedule. Yet, an examination of the entire book of Daniel reveals that the element of time is everywhere prominent in the visions and prophecies it presents; and the world powers and events described in each such vision are shown, not as isolated or as occurring at random with the time element left ambiguous, but, rather, as fitting into a historical setting or time sequence. (Compare Da 2:36-45; 7:3-12, 17-26; 8:3-14, 20-25; 9:2, 24-27; 11:2-45; 12:7-13.) Additionally, the book repeatedly points toward the conclusion that forms the theme of its prophecies: the establishment of a universal and eternal Kingdom of God exercised through the rulership of the “son of man.” (Da 2:35, 44, 45; 4:17, 25, 32; 7:9-14, 18, 22, 27; 12:1) The book is also distinctive in the Hebrew Scriptures for its references to “the time of the end.”—Da 8:19; 11:35, 40; 12:4, 9.
In view of the above, it does not seem logical to evaluate the vision of the symbolic “tree” and its reference to “seven times” as having no other application than to the seven years of madness and subsequent recovery and return to power experienced by one Babylonian ruler, particularly so in the light of Jesus’ own prophetic reference to “the appointed times of the nations.” The time at which the vision was given: at the critical point in history when God, the Universal Sovereign, had allowed the very kingdom that he had established among his covenant people to be overthrown; the person to whom the vision was revealed: the very ruler who served as the divine instrument in such overthrow and who thereby became the recipient of world domination by divine permission, that is, without interference by any representative kingdom of Jehovah God; and the whole theme of the vision, namely: “that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind” (Da 4:17)—all of this gives strong reason for believing that the lengthy vision and its interpretation were included in the book of Daniel because of their revealing the duration of “the appointed times of the nations” and the time for the establishment of God’s Kingdom by his Christ.
The Hebrew text of the Jewish Bible, the original Semitic language found in the Masoretic text can be interpreted in different ways. It's the same with renderings of the New Testament in Koine Greek. The interpretation here is logical and well presented, but just about all Hebrew and Greek Lexicons map one word to several variations in another language. Besides, many people I know (including myself) find the Bible useful in understanding what the Jews in the time of Jesus believed but not particularly useful or ambiguous with modern science.
For the most part I've rejected a God that is only described in a book and non-existent in common observational reality circa 2010 so the claims that God can impart supernatural power to those that ask for it is somewhat alarming or demonstrably false.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20091001/article_03.htm
...millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses have experienced the power of the holy spirit in their lives. Jehovah’s active force—the force behind the creation of the universe—can be made available to you if you wish.
Religion is a topic I've considered to be firmly settled (in my mind anyway) so I'll put these types of inquiries off until some later date.
a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
"And there is a bigger reason why this topic is important that you may not yet be aware of. The 607/1914 teaching is foundational to the JW leadership's claims to divinely-given authority, of being specially chosen by God (in 1918/19) to be His sole channel for dispensing spiritual truth. It is this notion that will, if your wife continues to progress in her study, ultimately lead her to being 'locked' into this religion."
Their claims go beyond that:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20091001/article_03.htm
millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses have experienced the power of the holy spirit in their lives. Jehovah’s active force—the force behind the creation of the universe—can be made available to you if you wish.
Whether this is true or not, people live their lives in manner that makes sense to them. Nobody's locked into anything unless they're physically restrained. People here aren't.
is there a place where all the watchtower publications can be downloaded?.
is there a place where all the watchtower publications can be downloaded?.
Thier newer books?
is there a place where all the watchtower publications can be downloaded?.
Is there a place where all the Watchtower publications can be downloaded?
a long-awaited review by professor h. hunger, foremost authority on babylonian astronomical cuneiform tablets, of dr. r. furuli's assyrian, babylonian, and egyptian chronology.
volume ii of assyrian, babylonian, egyptian, and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible is now available to read for anyone who is interested.
you can find it at http://goto.glocalnet.net/kf4/reviewhunger.htm.
It took a while to understand the tie in and why this subject is so important. Maybe next time you can post the watchtower information.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060715/article_02.htm
A prophecy in the Bible book of Daniel states: “Chop the tree down, and ruin it. However, leave its rootstock itself in the earth, but with a banding of iron and of copper . . . until seven times themselves pass over it.” (Daniel 4:23) As we will see, the “seven times” mentioned here are equal in length to “the appointed times of the nations.”
2,520 years
| October 607 | B.C.E. | C.E. | October 1914 |
| 606 1/4 years | 1,913 3/4 years | ||
“The appointed times of the nations” | |||
In the Bible, individuals, rulers, and kingdoms are at times represented by trees. (Psalm 1:3; Jeremiah 17:7, 8; Ezekiel, chapter 31) The symbolic tree “was visible to the extremity of the whole earth.” (Daniel 4:11) Thus, the rulership represented by the tree that was to be chopped down and banded extended “to the extremity of the earth,” involving the whole kingdom of mankind. (Daniel 4:17, 20, 22) The tree therefore represents the supreme rulership of God, particularly in its relationship to the earth. This rulership was expressed for a time through the kingdom that Jehovah set up over the nation of Israel. The symbolic tree was cut down, and bands of iron and copper were placed upon the stump in order to prevent its growth. This indicated that God’s representative rulership on earth was to cease its operation, as happened in 607 B.C.E.—but not indefinitely. The tree would remain banded until “seven times” had passed. At the end of that period, Jehovah would give rulership to the legal heir, Jesus Christ. Clearly, the “seven times” and “the appointed times of the nations” refer to the same time period.
The Bible helps us to determine the length of the “seven times.” It equates 1,260 days with “a time [one time] and times [two times, plural] and half a time”—a total of three and a half “times.” (Revelation 12:6, 14) This means that twice that number, or seven times, is 2,520 days.
When we count 2,520 literal days from 607 B.C.E., we come to 600 B.C.E. However, the seven times lasted much longer than that. They were still in progress when Jesus spoke of “the appointed times of the nations.” The seven times, therefore, are prophetic. Hence, we must apply the Scriptural rule: “A day for a year.” (Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6) In that case, the seven times of earth’s domination by worldly powers without divine interference amount to 2,520 years. Counting 2,520 years from 607 B.C.E. brings us to 1914 C.E. That is the year when “the appointed times of the nations,” or seven times, ended. This means that Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God’s Kingdom in 1914.
If every Babylonian archeological remain excavated were synchronous with the Biblical timetable then what?
I think it's obvious that people here do not want Judgment Day to come that's why you go to great lenths to undermine the Bible. There's very little next to nothing in the riddled mesh of information people post that follows any-kind of logical thought process that can be understood. The conversation switches back and forth from a case against God to opposition against JWs. If a closed mind towards Jehovah's Witnesses makes people scatter brained and unreasonably dissident, that may be the problem. This guy couldn't find any common ground here either.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/201762/1/Thanks-and-Goodbye
I like being around happy people that love life. IMO, the site has degenerated into a place where everyone can go to complain, hate, and tear down faith of any type. I respect the beliefs of all of you. However, when the conversations degrade into attacks against the God that I love and know, I cannot partake in the conversation anymore.
we all know they're here but we don't really know who they are.. they are people who sign up here and then never comment (or rarely ever do).. doesn't that make any of you regulars here at the very least a tiny bit suspicious?.
why would a person sign up to a forum like this and then never say a damn thing?
it seems to me that there is a primary reason why some folks sign up and then never comment on anything: to spy.
I read a post here and there and make a comment if and when I can someting worth commenting on. Most of the posts are not honest debates, they're often inflammatory and rife with loaded language. When I first read the posts here they made me mad because the attitudes here will destabilize family relationships if a family member is a Jehovah's Witnesses.
I'm not bothered anymore because the people who condemn Jehovah's Witnesses as a “man-inspired cult” come across as godless themselves so they have little room to speak.
People here constantly reference Steven Hassan, former member of the Unification Church. The religion is not the same as other religions like Mormonism and the Unification Church.
Based strictly on observation, there's no reason not to have an open-mind towards Jehovah's Witnesses. People here generally talk about the same things when there's a bigger picture to consider.
i haven't posted in a long time.
most trying to recover and still get my head straight, this religion when you find it's not the 'truth' is hard to move on sometimes.
my mom urgently needed to speak to me about a magazine that just came out.
Most people descend into disbelief because their prayers go unanswered. I doubted that my prayers were answered at all. What do JWs say about this or do they also think of God in strictly terms of an intellectual exercise as nobody talks about that here? The religion being true doesn't necessarily mean I'd be a part of it as I need nothing from God atm. Everything about the religion seems real personal to people here although here, all the information they publish is simply treated as an intellectual exercise.
former jehovah's witness, pioneer and bethelite woman is disgusted over how much money her parents gave to the watchtower org., over 160 gorgeous acres of land in upstate new york.
one of the watchtower farms buildings was built on a portion of this land.
she will be telling her whole story and how her life was adversely affected by the "evils of the watchtower org".
Actually, I just typed “spade” under Google image search and thought the picture looked neat. How do you associate your changing beliefs with mind control? Differing religious views have been around since the “crucifixion” and long before that. Mind control is a quasi-scientific concept suggested by some former religionists that for the most part describes their personal experiences and changing beliefs.
The same profound reverence to a specific doctrine that is experienced by the “flock” is likely experienced by the “shepherds.” People here seem to think the shepherds don't believe what they preach but use the information they publish as a means to control the flock. I don't go around pushing and shoving others about their personal beliefs. If you have family like that, learn to ignore them. People here that hate JWs I guess would hate any JW family members I have. I don't have anything nice to say to them. I hope I don't meet them in person.
