Posts by Spade

13

Will Religion Become Extinct?

by satinka in

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197.

religion may become extinct in nine nations, study saysby jason palmer, science and technology reporter, bbc news, dallas.

a study using census data from nine countries shows that religion there is set for extinction, say researchers.. the study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation.. the team's mathematical model attempts to account for the interplay between the number of religious respondents and the social motives behind being one.. the result, reported at the american physical society meeting in dallas, us, indicates that religion will all but die out altogether in those countries.. the team took census data stretching back as far as a century from countries in which the census queried religious affiliation: australia, austria, canada, the czech republic, finland, ireland, the netherlands, new zealand and switzerland.. nonlinear dynamics is invoked to explain a wide range of physical phenomena in which a number of factors play a part.. one of the team, daniel abrams of northwestern university, put forth a similar model in 2003 to put a numerical basis behind the decline of lesser-spoken world languages.. at its heart is the competition between speakers of different languages, and the "utility" of speaking one instead of another.. "the idea is pretty simple," said richard wiener of the research corporation for science advancement, and the university of arizona.. "it posits that social groups that have more members are going to be more attractive to join, and it posits that social groups have a social status or utility.. "for example in languages, there can be greater utility or status in speaking spanish instead of [the dying language] quechuan in peru, and similarly there's some kind of status or utility in being a member of a religion or not.".

Spade

re chap. 35 p. 256 pars. 15-16 Executing Babylon the Great

God’s people are not the only objects of the enmity of the ten horns. The angel now draws John’s attention back to the harlot: “And he says to me: ‘The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.’”—Revelation 17:15, 16.

Just as ancient Babylon relied on her watery defenses, Babylon the Great today relies on her huge membership of “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” The angel appropriately draws our attention to these before telling of a shocking development: Political governments of this earth will turn violently upon Babylon the Great. What will all those “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues” do then? God’s people are already warning Babylon the Great that the water of the river Euphrates will dry up. (Revelation 16:12) Those waters will finally drain away completely. They will not be able to give the disgusting old harlot any effectual support in her hour of greatest need.—Isaiah 44:27; Jeremiah 50:38; 51:36, 37.

39

NEED HELP Proving that 607 BC is false and list of flip-flops

by doubtful in

this post is going to seem erratic to some, but i'm afraid it's the best i can do.

i can only write on this board during the spare moments i have when my mother is not in the home.

so i need to get as much info in per thread as possible given the time constraints.

Spade

The Bible contains interlocking harmony and so does the vast majority of world history associated with the Bible.

Rbi8 p. 8 Introduction

There are more than 125,000 marginal (cross) references in this (New World Translation) edition. These citations demonstrate that there is at least a second witness to almost every Biblical matter. A careful comparison of the marginal references and an examination of the accompanying footnotes will reveal the interlocking harmony of the 66 Bible books, proving that they comprise one book, inspired by God.

Its integrity to truth proves sound on any point that might be tested. Its history is accurate and can be relied upon. For example, what it says about the fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians cannot be successfully contradicted (Jer 51:11, 12, 28; Da 5:28), neither can what it says about people like Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar (Jer 27:20; Da 1:1); Egyptian King Shishak (1Ki 14:25; 2Ch 12:2); Assyrians Tiglath-pileser III and Sennacherib (2Ki 15:29; 16:7; 18:13); the Roman emperors Augustus, Tiberius, and Claudius (Lu 2:1; 3:1; Ac 18:2); Romans such as Pilate, Felix, and Festus (Ac 4:27; 23:26; 24:27); nor what it says about the temple of Artemis at Ephesus and the Areopagus at Athens (Ac 19:35; 17:19-34). What the Bible says about these or any other places, people, or events is historically accurate in every detail.

Opponents of 607 B.C.E may try considering exactly what Luke 21:23-24 signifies and then add the secular history. This was a concept that was pretty much ignored in my prior post.

http://www.watchtower21.org/2010/11/gentile-times-reconsidered.html

For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. Luke 21:23-24

Or rendered:
http://nlt.scripturetext.com/luke/21.htm

Jesus Foretells the Future

How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. For there will be disaster in the land and great anger against this people. They will be killed by the sword or sent away as captives to all the nations of the world. And Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the period of the Gentiles comes to an end. Luke 21:23-24

“It was in B.C. 606, that God’s kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B.C. 606, will end in A.D. 1914.”—The Three Worlds, published in 1877 by N.H. Barbour and C.T. Russell, page 83.

The visibility of God's Kingdom as a heavenly and visible earthly organization should be the focus when reaching conclusions.

Recognized authorities of today accept 539 B.C.E. without any question as the year Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus the Great. With the date 539 B.C.E. so firmly fixed and agreed to by so many scholars, there are reasons for confidence in where we stand today in relation to the fall of Jerusalem and then Babylon twenty-five centuries ago and the complete restoration of God's visible earthly organization. October 6, 1968, marked 2,506 years since the fall of that third world empire.

Two centuries earlier Jehovah by the mouth of his prophet Isaiah had declared: “[I am] the One saying of Cyrus, ‘He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out’; even in my saying of Jerusalem, ‘She will be rebuilt,’ and of the temple, ‘You will have your foundation laid.’” (Isa. 44:28) Without further delay this two-hundred-year-old prophecy was about to be fulfilled. Cyrus acceded to the throne and “in the first year” of his reign, at least before the spring of 537, “Jehovah roused the spirit of Cyrus.” He issued the famous edict permitting the Jews to return and rebuild Jehovah’s temple, copies of which were written and circulated throughout the realm. This allowed sufficient time for the Jews to resettle in their homeland, ‘establish the altar firmly upon its own site,’ and “from the first day of the seventh month” start offering up burnt sacrifices to Jehovah. This date, the “first day of the seventh month,” according to the best astronomical tables available, is calculated to be October 5 (Julian) or September 29 (Gregorian) 537 B.C.E.—Ezra 1:1-4; 3:1-6.

Here, then, very definitely established, is another milestone—the time when the seventy years of desolation of the land of Judah came to an end—about October 1, 537. (Jer. 25:11, 12; 29:10) It is now a simple formula to determine when the seventy years began. One has only to add 70 to 537 to get 607. So about October 1, 607 B.C.E., the desolating of the land of Judah and the complete emptying out of its inhabitants was fully accomplished.

All the secular data is there and fits together isometrically when counting back 2520 years from 1914 C.E. and taking into consideration the accession and first regnal year of Cyrus. Will you accept the complete and harmonious Biblical chronology, which gives us a time-line without contradictions, showing the total fulfillment of every prophecy Jehovah gave us or listen to the voices of atheists, the likes of AnnOMaly and others who are obviously completely alienated from God? God's existence doesn't depend strictly on excavated cuneiform tablets. That's a very small aspect of evidence for the supernatural.

96

One thing the WT got right was the Trinity being false.

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i swear only a fool would believe in such a ludicrous doctrine that all three are one.

ridiculous..

Spade

I'm surprised this is not disconcerting to Trinitarians: The Trinity is completely incompatible with objective reality so doesn't God need to insert erroneous texts into the Bible to support something that is incomprehensible like the Trinity.

Considering the mysterious nature of the Triune Godhead, I would think something like this would be pretty important, so shouldn't God have been a lot more clear on this? Shouldn't he have stated something such as "Hey, there are three of us in one entity you need to worship" or "Hey, I have multiple personalities" or something to that effect?

ti p. 4 How Is the Trinity Explained?

“Beyond the Grasp of Human Reason”

This confusion is widespread. The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”

Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene Clark says:“God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.” Cardinal John O’Connor states:“We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”

Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says:“Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves.”

We can understand, then, why the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes:“There are few teachers of Trinitarian theology in Roman Catholic seminaries who have not been badgered at one time or another by the question,‘But how does one preach the Trinity?’ And if the question is symptomatic of confusion on the part of the students, perhaps it is no less symptomatic of similar confusion on the part of their professors.”

The truth of that observation can be verified by going to a library and examining books that support the Trinity. Countless pages have been written attempting to explain it. Yet, after struggling through the labyrinth of confusing theological terms and explanations, investigators still come away unsatisfied.
The Trinity (triads of deities) originated outside of God's Word and true worship.

it-1 p. 237 Babylon

Babylon was a most religious place. Evidence from excavations and from ancient texts points to the existence of more than 50 temples. The principal god of the imperial city was Marduk, called Merodach in the Bible. It has been suggested that Nimrod was deified as Marduk, but the opinions of scholars as to identifications of gods with specific humans vary. Triads of deities were also prominent in the Babylonian religion. One of these, made up of two gods and a goddess, was Sin (the moon-god), Shamash (the sun-god), and Ishtar; these were said to be the rulers of the zodiac. And still another triad was composed of the devils Labartu, Labasu, and Akhkhazu. Idolatry was everywhere in evidence.

42

What Are Their Motives?

by headisspinning in

i have a question.

if jws are a cult, what is the motivation of the leaders?

what are they getting out of controlling all these people?.

Spade

There's a deference in those that serve God out of love and those not with a pure motive. The faithful and discreet slave doesn't profit from the good news nor have they ever.

True, some are preaching the Christ through envy and rivalry, but others also through goodwill. The latter are publicizing the Christ out of love, for they know I am set here for the defense of the good news; but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are supposing to stir up tribulation [for me] in my [prison] bonds. Philippians 1:15-17

Allow room for us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have taken advantage of no one. I do not say this to condemn you. For I have said before that you are in our hearts to die and to live with us. I have great freeness of speech toward you. I have great boasting in regard to you. 2 Corinthians 7:2-4

74

Wt Org Like an Animal Pack

by Satanus in

observing how stranglers and those who get ahead of the wt org are left or get ostricised reminded me of similar dynamics in some animal societies, lions, for instance.

lions and housecats are the only felines that form groups.

pack members who get sick or injured and become unable to keep up w the pride are left behind.

Spade

Villabolo, I didn't read what you said, I just glanced at the obscene sacrilegious imagery you posted that destroys your credibility. Jehovah's Witnesses can easily destroy the credibility of this forum based on a simple character assessment.

But now really put them all away from you, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of your mouth. Colossians 3:8

Let fornication and uncleanness of every sort or greediness not even be mentioned among you, just as it befits holy people; neither shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting, things which are not becoming, but rather the giving of thanks. Ephesians 5:3-4

74

Wt Org Like an Animal Pack

by Satanus in

observing how stranglers and those who get ahead of the wt org are left or get ostricised reminded me of similar dynamics in some animal societies, lions, for instance.

lions and housecats are the only felines that form groups.

pack members who get sick or injured and become unable to keep up w the pride are left behind.

Spade

Spade says - Core Bible truths never change and the Watchtower Society has been consistent in teaching the Truth

Like Pyramidolgy, the bogus unscriptural calculated dating of 1914........1975 all other the other dates creating by the

organization to attract the publics attention and sell more pieces of literature. $$$

Thats the so called Truth observed by Spade who says he/she was never a JWS.

1975 was never stated in terms as any kind of prophecy deemed official by the faithful and discreet slave.

w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

Bible chronology is an interesting study by which historic events are placed in their order of occurrence along the stream of time. The Watch Tower Society over the years has endeavored to keep its associates abreast with the latest scholarship that proves consistent with historic and prophetic events recorded in the Scriptures. Major problems in sacred chronology have been straightened out either due to fulfillment of Bible prophecies or by reason of archaeological discoveries or because better Bible translations convey more clearly the records of the original languages. However, several knotty problems of chronology of a minor nature are not yet resolved. For example, at the time of the exodus from Egypt when Jehovah changed the beginning of the year from autumn time on the secular calendar to spring time on the sacred calendar, was there, in the Jewish calendar, a loss or a gain of six months?—Ex. 12:1, 2.

One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!

http://www.watchtower21.org/2010/12/pyramidologists-great-pyramid-of-gizeh.html

Pyramidologists: the Great Pyramid of Gizeh

The Great Pyramid of Gizeh (one of the oldest of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World) had special meaning to Charles Taze Russell and the Bible students in 19th century.

The administrative position of Jehovah's Organization has never whitewashed mistaken viewpoints. The evidence has clearly been referenced for critics or newly interested ones for research purposes.

jv chap. 14 pp. 200-201 “They Are No Part of the World” Practices That Have Been Abandoned This Christmas celebration at Brooklyn Bethel in 1926 was their last. The Bible Students gradually came to appreciate that neither the origin of this holiday nor the practices associated with it honored God For years, Bible Students wore a cross and crown as a badge of identification, and this symbol was on the front cover of the “Watch Tower” from 1891 to 1931. But in 1928 it was emphasized that not a decorative symbol but one’s activity as a witness showed he was a Christian. In 1936 it was pointed out that the evidence indicates that Christ died on a stake, not a two-beamed cross. In their “Daily Manna” book, Bible Students kept a list of birthdays. But after they quit celebrating Christmas and when they realized that birthday celebrations were giving undue honor to creatures (one reason that early Christians never celebrated birthdays), the Bible Students quit this practice too. For some 35 years, Pastor Russell thought that the Great Pyramid of Gizeh was God’s stone witness, corroborating Biblical time periods. (Isa. 19:19) But Jehovah’s Witnesses have abandoned the idea that an Egyptian pyramid has anything to do with true worship. (See “Watchtower” issues of November 15 and December 1, 1928).

74

Wt Org Like an Animal Pack

by Satanus in

observing how stranglers and those who get ahead of the wt org are left or get ostricised reminded me of similar dynamics in some animal societies, lions, for instance.

lions and housecats are the only felines that form groups.

pack members who get sick or injured and become unable to keep up w the pride are left behind.

Spade

If the WTS path of righteousness was so accurate why all the adjustments, or flickerin' light ???????

Core Bible truths never change and the Watchtower Society has been consistent in teaching the Truth. The very few changes in what the Bible teaches (e.g. Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32) could only be revealed through the passage of time.

148

Have you ever had a prayer answered?

by nicolaou in

prayer topics seem to be the bandwagon of the moment so i'm jumping on!

seriously, has anyone here asked for something specific in prayer and actually gotten what they asked for?

what convinces you that you wouldn't have got it in any case?

Spade

Yes, I have.

39

NEED HELP Proving that 607 BC is false and list of flip-flops

by doubtful in

this post is going to seem erratic to some, but i'm afraid it's the best i can do.

i can only write on this board during the spare moments i have when my mother is not in the home.

so i need to get as much info in per thread as possible given the time constraints.

Spade

The target audience you're probing for information loaths the idea of divine intervention in contemporary society. There's plenty of evidence that reveals where we are in harmony with Jehovah's timetable, a timeline of events apostates choose not to bear witness with even though the evidence is crystal clear. Apostate fighters of God will take any and all measures to obscure where the Bible reveals we are in the stream of time.

74

Wt Org Like an Animal Pack

by Satanus in

observing how stranglers and those who get ahead of the wt org are left or get ostricised reminded me of similar dynamics in some animal societies, lions, for instance.

lions and housecats are the only felines that form groups.

pack members who get sick or injured and become unable to keep up w the pride are left behind.

Spade

The only ones that are estranged are those that have come to an accurate knowledge of truth, then turn away and persist in making separations in the congregation.

Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20-22

As for you, beloved ones, call to mind the sayings that have been previously spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, how they used to say to you: “In the last time there will be ridiculers, proceeding according to their own desires for ungodly things.” These are the ones that make separations, animalistic [men], not having spirituality. Jude 17-19