Posts by Listener

27

JW Policy Regarding "Marking" From The Nov 2016 WT

by JW_Rogue in

jws will deny that local needs parts are often just a way to mark those in the congregation who are deemed to be "bad association" or who don't fall in line with the elders viewpoints.

now, for the first time in a long time the wt discusses their marking policy and how it works in the nov study wt:.

recall paul’s counsel regarding disorderly ones in the congregation.

Listener

They don't announce the person's name so that any Bro's or Sis's that are unaware of who it is still associate with that person. It makes a mockery of the marking arrangement.

49

i have been trying really hard to find the court case transcript where steven unthank was in court in australia and one of the wt lawyers or a wt spokesperson said the faithful and discreet slave does not exist.. i hope that this is correct i remember reading about this a long while back and would love to get evidence of this.. i found steven on facebook and messaged him about 6 months ago and he didn't respond, he probably wants to let all this go, and i don't blame him for that.. any suggestions would be very much appreciated.. thanks wgo..

Listener

From what I remember this was only here say, there was never any evidence presented. The Victorian Royal Commission transcript shows no conversation to that effect.

The link to the transcript is here, scroll down to the Watchtower Bible and tract Society.

http://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/fcdc/article/1786

It is interesting go through that transcript again and the Watchtower had such an easy time. In comparison, the Australian RC has been very thorough.

Ms. Van Worsen was the Watchtowers lawyer and she repeatedly said that the no. 1 priority was the protection of children.

This was probably the most interesting part from the Victorian RC

"Mr WAKELING — But if I may, Mr O’Brien, I am trying to understand the position of the church. In my
own questioning you have indicated to me that you would not be reporting, that you will report — particularly
as your legal counsel indicated — and now you are saying that you may or may not. We are looking at this
exact issue of child abuse within religious organisations of a systemic nature and how those organisations deal
with those matters. You have the right to waiver that exemption. You have the capacity as a church to report
these matters, and for the purpose of our inquiry we need to know how you would be dealing with those issues.
Mr T. O’BRIEN — I would like to take further legal advice on that particular question.
The CHAIR — Would Ms van Witsen answer then?
Ms VAN WITSEN — If I could. Yes, certainly. To date the government has stipulated in the Children,
Youth and Families Act 2005 section 182(1)(a) to (e) who should be mandated to report, so that is under the
mandatory reporting. As we all know ministers of religion are not currently there. If that list were expanded to
include them, my instructions are that we are to direct elders to comply immediately — fully comply. That is no
question, and the organisation would certainly comply. Those are my clear instructions.
However, in the meantime as solicitors we have been instructed to specifically direct all elders who contact the
Legal Department immediately on hearing of any allegation of child abuse — and you may refer to the covering
letter of the organisation on page 3 — they are to advise the victim and/or the victim’s family that they are
completely free to report this matter to the police or other appropriate authority. Not only that, regardless of
what decision they make, the elders will continue to fully support them. Thus it is the victim and the victim’s
family whose absolute right it is to report any allegation to the police. It is their choice; they will be fully
supported in any way.
However, there is a proviso on that. That proviso, if I may explain that, is there is obviously information that is
learnt as part of the confidential dealings of elders with penitents and what have you. No longer is there a
statutory impediment, no longer is the consent of the penitent required to disclose information, as you correctly
identified. We have now got a uniform Evidence Act which allows that to be waived. In what conditions is that
waived? My instructions are that whatever is necessary to protect a child, even if it involves the disclosure of
information which is normally confidential, it would be done — be that reporting to the police or other relevant
child protection authorities. What would ordinarily be considered confidential would be reported.

15

JW Apprentice in Hair Salon.

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

my hairdresser warned me that he had taken on a jw apprentice and asked me what i thought.

she attends the kh that disfellowhipped me.

i told him that i would have to be careful about what i said concerning my personal life as she would report back anything she heard to the elders.

Listener

Lol Smiddy, yes I would have a problem with it, but I'm a female.

64

THE BIG A: RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.

by Mary in

jw
friends

where did all the witnesses over the decades get the idea that armageddon was right around the corner?

the society certainly never put anything like that down in print:

*** w56 10/15 p. 614 when will gods kingdom come?

Listener

Theocratic Warfare: "We neither said which corner or how long it would take to get there"

15

JW Apprentice in Hair Salon.

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

my hairdresser warned me that he had taken on a jw apprentice and asked me what i thought.

she attends the kh that disfellowhipped me.

i told him that i would have to be careful about what i said concerning my personal life as she would report back anything she heard to the elders.

Listener

I guess there are some circumstances where it is okay for a JW to talk to a disfellowshipped person. Like when your about to save their life or ... cut their hair.

18

Prince wanted Obama to ban birthdays and Christmas, according to his buddy Van Jones

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i saw this news scrolling at the bottom of the television screen this morning.

i looked it up.

not much of a story, but it certainly has the ring of truth to it.

Listener

He had the power of music in his hands to get any message across that he wanted to.

5

Do pregnant sisters wear the tight, formfitting dresses like those women of "the world" do?

by ShirleyW in

jw
friends

just wondering about that as i was watching the news tonight with lester holt, the weatherperson was dylan dryer i believe her name is, who is also on the today show, she was wearing what pregnant women have been wearing for more than ten years now which is the formfitting style of maternity dress.

just wondering if the sisters in the hall are doing the same thing, because back in the day the old elderettes and female pioneers would have an earful to say about a pregnant women who doesn't wear the appropriate maternity wear, showing off that big belly and so on.

btw, i don't care for that style on pregnant women at all, too revealing to me, i don't have kids but couldn't imagine showing off a 30lb belly like that, seems a bit inappropriate to me, imho i guess i should add here..

Listener

If it's okay for Coco Rocha then it must be okay for everyone else, or was it simply that she didn't get Morris' note about Spanx?

http://www.refinery29.com/2015/07/90155/coco-rocha-pregnancy-video

I've gotten used to the look and it probably only comes off if you have the body for it (and a belly button that doesn't stick out).

15

Wriggling Like A Worm On A Hook???

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

just been reading this week's study article for the jws:.

imagine that an experienced guide is leading you on a tour of a wondrous and beautiful city.

the city is new to you and to those with you, so you hang on to the guide’s every word.

Listener

IMAGINE that an experienced guide is leading you on a tour of a wondrous and beautiful city. The city is new to you and to those with you, so you hang on to the guide’s every word. At times, you and your fellow tourists wonder excitedly about some of the city’s features that you have not yet seen. When you ask your guide about such things, however, he withholds his comments until key moments, often just when a certain sight is coming into view. In time, you grow ever more impressed with his wisdom, for he tells you what you need to know right when you need to know it.

If this illustration is accurate, this is supposed to be how things work, but the following comments explain that it has not been.

We should be hanging on to every word from the Guide and only the Guide's.

2 True Christians are in a situation similar to that of the tourists. We are eagerly learning about the most wondrous of cities, “the city having real foundations,” the Kingdom of God. (Heb. 11:10)

Here we see that Christians are considered to be tourists in this example. This includes the GB because, after all, they are not leaders, nor could they be considered experienced guides. They are imperfect and interpreting the Bible is new to them.

3 Jesus spoke the words recorded at John 16:12 on the final night of his earthly life. After his death, how would he continue to teach faithful people about God’s Kingdom? He assured his apostles: “The spirit of the truth . . . will guide you into all the truth.” * (John 16:13) We may think of the holy spirit as a patient guide. The spirit is Jesus’ means of teaching his followers whatever they need to know about God’s Kingdom—right when they need to know it.

Since Jesus said it was the HS that would guide us after he left, then it is not the work of the GB. Again, the writer tells us that we will be taught right when we need to know it.

4 Let us consider how Jehovah’s holy spirit has been guiding sincere Christians into greater knowledge about that Kingdom.

Just as an aside, apparently it is God’s HS that is guiding us and Jesus is using that HS, it starts to sound Trinitarian.

As we saw in Chapter 2 of this book, the Bible Students spent decades pointing out that the year 1914 would be significant in fulfilling Bible prophecy. However, at that time they believed that Christ’s presence had begun in 1874, that he had begun to rule in heaven in 1878, and that the Kingdom would not be fully set up until October 1914. The harvest would extend from 1874 to 1914 and would culminate in the gathering of the anointed to heaven. Do mistaken ideas such as these cast doubt on whether Jesus was guiding those faithful ones by means of holy spirit?
6 Not at all! Think again of our opening illustration. Would the premature ideas and eager questions of the tourists cast doubt on the reliability of their guide? Hardly! Similarly, although God’s people sometimes try to work out details of Jehovah’s purpose before it is time for the holy spirit to guide them to such truths, it is clear that Jesus is leading them. Thus, faithful ones prove willing to be corrected and humbly adjust their views.—Jas. 4:6.

Not only are we being fed the wrong food but it is being given at the improper time. But not to worry, it’s only our fellow tourists that are doing this. The Tour Guide has given no incorrect information, he’s always right and will give us the information at the right time.

This raises the question as to why some of the tourists, the GB, are making mistakes, giving wrong information and making assumptions on future events? The answer is clear, they are not following the Tour Guide. Since this tour is one of life or death, that is a serious problem.

Then there is the question as to why the other tourists, out of their eagerness, fall into the trap of listening and obeying the instructions of other, apparently more experienced tourists (the GB)? Because they are under some misapprehension that those tourists have some direct assistance from the Tour Guide. How did they come to think that? Because those tourists (the GB) appointed themselves to that position and claimed to have knowledge that they did not.

It is clear from the example that the tourists should only be following the Tour Guide (the HS) and they only have themselves to blame for following other tourists. By following those tourists taking the lead, they can never be sure how accurate the information is and they have already proven, over and over, that they cannot be relied upon.

7 In the years following 1919, God’s people were blessed with more and more flashes of spiritual light. (Read Psalm 97:11.) In 1925, a landmark article appeared in The Watch Tower, entitled “Birth of the Nation.” It laid out convincing Scriptural evidence that the Messianic Kingdom had been born in 1914, fulfilling the prophetic picture of God’s heavenly woman giving birth, as recorded in Revelation chapter 12. * The article further showed that the persecution and trouble that came upon Jehovah’s people during those war years were clear signs that Satan had been hurled down from heaven, “having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”—Rev. 12:12.

Wait a minute, if this information is even true, was this information from the Tour Guide or from the fellow tourists?

Oh, I think I've knocked that one on the head. It was from the Tour Guide until the tourists taking the lead decide that it was wrong, at which point in time it can then be considered to be from the tourists and the new information replacing it is now from the Tour Guide. We could play this game forever. The Tour Guide would be so frustrated with this group of people, it's not his fault after all.

8 How important is the Kingdom? In 1928, The Watch Tower began to stress that the Kingdom was more important than personal salvation by means of the ransom. Indeed, it is by means of the Messianic Kingdom that Jehovah will sanctify his name, vindicate his sovereignty, and carry out all his purposes regarding mankind.

Wasn’t the ransom more important than the Kingdom? Isn’t the ransom the key to the birth of that Kingdom?

9 Who would rule with Christ in that Kingdom? Who would be the earthly subjects of that Kingdom? And what work should occupy Christ’s followers?"

Now is our opportunity to read on folks in that magazine and see what the tourists taking the lead have to say about that. Follow their thoughts at your own risk.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

Listener

To them their conscience is clear.

If something is wrong then

1. It is not the proper time for it to be clarified

2. It's not a problem, they are imperfect

3. The answer is to wait on Jehovah to clarify matters

4. In the meantime, they are showing humility by accepting the first 3 points.

5. If they personally believe something is incorrect but not agreed upon by the greater majority of GB members, then the first four principles apply.

15

Wriggling Like A Worm On A Hook???

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

just been reading this week's study article for the jws:.

imagine that an experienced guide is leading you on a tour of a wondrous and beautiful city.

the city is new to you and to those with you, so you hang on to the guide’s every word.

Listener

Boroean Pickets has a wonderful article on this.

http://beroeans.net/2016/12/04/2016-dec-5-11-our-christian-life-and-ministry/