Listener

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  19

  AGM - Are they now teaching predestination?

  by Doubting Bro in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  another agm thought.

  in tight pants tony's part, he mentioned several times that jehovah draws those he chooses and only those rightly disposed would come in.

  and individuals that liked the literature but made no progress towards becoming jw were a "waste of time".. was he setting the stage for them introducing the thought of predestination?

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  Listener

  It doesn't explain why a large percentage of JWs are born into the religion or why whole families are in.
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  20

  January 2018 Watchtower

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the cover page shows a photo jws loading a small plane with watchtower literature to take to a remote area in bolivia.the first study article introduces the 2018 year text isa.

  40:31 "those hoping in jehovah will regain power".

  according to them, you may leave home to do field service or attend a meeting feeling exhausted but you return home refreshed and 'jesus' yoke is kindly indeed!

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  Listener

  The cover page shows a photo JWs loading a small plane with Watchtower literature to take to a remote area in Bolivia.
  
  The first study article introduces the 2018 Year Text Isa. 40:31 "Those hoping in Jehovah will regain power". According to them, you may leave home to do field service or attend a meeting feeling exhausted but you return home refreshed and 'Jesus' yoke is kindly indeed!'
  
  This article includes the following instruction
  
  

  'If you have sinned seriously, Jehovah is ready to help you recover. But you must accept the help he provides through the congregation. (Prov. 24:16; Jas. 5:13-15)'.

  
  Once again, they use the qualifier that only serious sins need to be confessed. The scriptures quoted don't mention that a JC is required and a judgement needs to be made over that confession rather than following the bible advise Elders praying.
  
  Page 12 has the article 'Pleasant Unity and the Memorial'
  
  Some amazing claims are made here. They bring new meaning to Revelation 7:9, 10 which discusses the Great Crowd shouting salvation we owe to God and the Lamb, by stating
  "How wonderful that Jehovah and Jesus are honored in this way by means of the annual Memorial observance!"
  
  It would appear that this article may have been written to counteract comments that they may have heard from apostates regarding 'the other sheep' attending. Now they can explain to us that it is their greatest example of Unity.
  
  

  By attending the memorial you are giving added reason for Jehovah to keep your name in the 'book of remembrance, the book of life'. Of course, there's no support for that idea in scripture.

  
  Taking their comments literally means the Great Crowd are currently fulfilling the prophecy.
  
  On page 17 to 21 is a study article titled 'Why give to the one that has everything?' and discuss the claim that he expects us to use our finances to support his organization today.
  
  The Watchtower explains that giving financially is part of our worship to him and it shows our appreciation.
  
  If the Watchtower asks for money, it should be given to them. Then they make clear that it's the followers who should be begging to give to them.
  
  

  Our brothers, even those who are in poor economic situations, are like the Macedonians who were in “deep poverty” and yet begged for the privilege to give and did so generously.—2 Cor. 8: 1-4.

  
  Then they explain how some make adjustments or simplify their lives so that they can give more.
  
  They relate the following experience
  
  

  "After touring one of our printing facilities, an executive from a large company was amazed that all the work was accomplished by volunteers, with voluntary donations, and without any sales or fund drives. He said that it should not be possible to do what we do. We agree!"

  
  We aren't told who this Executive is but because he's from a large company we should be impressed with his comments. As for there being no fund drives, this executive obviously was being deceived. If we knew who he was, we could give him a copy of this magazine and show him this very article as an example of their fund drives. The article also explains how JWs are asked to give to special projects.
  
  Page 30 shows the three phases of a man who transforms his life through Bible principles. First the man is depicted as a hostile thief with a beard, t shirt and jacket. The second shows him with an astonished look, learning from Watchtower publications, minus his jacket and now with only a mustache, the third shows him in a suit, clean shaven and happily helping an elderly lady at the JW.org Hall.
  
  King David - mentioned 14 times through various articles
  
  On page 23 they quote 'one Bible commentary' who gives an illustration regarding what a selfish person is like. The quote derives from a Puritan Devine (Clergy) who stated
  
  

  "the Puritan divines drew upon pur native stock of words and coined the words selfishand selfishness. One of these divines made a useful comparison between authades and philautos. He likened the selfish man to the hedgehog that rolls itself up into a ball, presenting only sharp spines to those without, while at the same time keeping inside the soft, warm wool for itself. "http://studybible.info/trench/Self-willed

  
  
  They quote three Bible Scholars
  

  Page 23 references Bible Scholars in general
  Page 26 quote comes from a book called "A Biblical Theology of the Church"
  Page 28 quote comes from William Barclay recorded in 1954. His full quote, which is not included in the Watchtower, he explains how a braggart is arrogant in his heart and may appear humble, quiet and inoffensive and that 'in his eyes there is something which looks at all men with a silent contempt'
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  9

  Contradicting Society directives

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with the agm changes, and the changes over the recent few years, it struck me just how contradictory and hypocritical the society is.. we were always told that "wonderful expansion" and growth in halls was proof of god's blessing.

  now it is the other way around, and building expansion is halted.. we were always told that door to door is the best way to take the "life saving" truth to people.

  now it is the cart work.... we were always told that the abundance of "spiritual food" in the form of publications was proof of gods direction and teaching.

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  Listener

  It's been some time now since one meeting a week was cancelled and there's been a reduction in the other two meeting times.
  
  Looks like the message is 'Reduce Reduce Reduce' or is it 'Simplify, Simplify, Simplify'?
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  15

  ANNUAL MEETING LETTER - To Zimbabwe congregations

  by The Fall Guy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a nonprofit corporation .

  watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania .

  private bag wg-5001, westgate, zimbabwe telephone 08677 004 012; 0772 472 403/4 .

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  Listener

  to reduce the amount of material that our brothers must read

  
  Really? It's not even a matter of choice as to what the brothers want to read instead they are supposed to read everything?
  
  Does this now mean they must read and watch everything on JW org and JW org TV?
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  130

  2017 Annual Meeting

  by Jules Saturn in

  1. social
  2. current

  this just in from the 2017 annual meeting:.

  1. watchtowers and awakes won't be released regularly, at least three watchtower and awakes per year.

  6 magazines a year.. 2. a new book is being released: remain in god's love, more of an update like how they did for the what does the bible really teach book.

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  Listener

  There was some leaked information reported at JW Reddit posted by NeedGreater approximately 2 months ago. The information has a lot of merit and he states
  
  

  I had a recent conversation with someone who is very involved with the art/ teaching deparments at Bethel. He intimated to me that he was recently involved in a meeting that included a GB member and was focused on a shift in the JWs public preaching message. A scripture was read from Ezekiel 33:32,33 and explained to mean that the message would no longer be a peaceful message "like a romantic love song" but rather a direct message of judgement. Apparently this change will be rolled out in the upcoming annual meeting or shortly thereafter and he said that it has led to a revision of the early editions of the 2018 magazines. He's a very reliable source and has "leaked" information like this to me before that has all turned out to be accurate.
  Anyone else heard about this?

  However he did say that this is specifically to fulfill the "prophecy" regarding the preaching work right before the end. Not new just an interesting shift. Maybe they want to weed out the "Kevins" from the org now ;-)

  
  As far as I have been able to pick up from posters who attended the meeting, the message has changed but at this stage it doesn't appear to be one of judgement (that's supposed to occur after the GT starts) but rather a focus on the vindication of God's name rather than saving people's lives.
  
  Given that his information seems to be reasonably on target I wonder if they are just introducing the idea of a change in the message slowly and will gradually direct JWs towards a full on 'judgement message'. Their current tracts and publications don't reflect the change but the sheepies will need to place them before ramping up promotion of this change with new material for placement.
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  12

  All Donations Received @ KH During Annual Meeting Must Be Sent To The Branch

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just got word that in all congregations where the annual meeting is being streamed, any donations received that day, even if put in the box for the local hall must be sent to the branch immediately.. there will be an announcement made before the program starts for this arrangement.

  so the extra electric needed that day, heat/ac that the congregation has to pay for does not matter.

  all money donated that day has to go to the branch..

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  Listener

  John Davis - what defines a Congregation event as opposed to a Branch event?
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  25

  Stupid, stupid nonsense in the October JW broadcast

  by sir82 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so in the october jw broadcast, there is a "morning worship" segment in which g. jackson goes to great lengths to explain how the term "those taking the lead" are not "leaders".. the terms are exactly equivalent, of course, but jackson, with a wink & smirk, pats himself on the back for his own cleverness on how different they really are.it's just so bizarrely absurd.. imagine if such tortured reasoning were applied to other areas..... -------------------------------------.

  restaurant manager: i'm sorry, the only position we have open is for dishwasher.

  applicant: that's insulting!

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  Listener

  You are correct in saying Jacksons 'morning worship' speech was bizarre.

  He referred to leaders as sitting in the sideline barking orders a number of times. It was an excellent description of what the GB are doing.
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  1

  Elderly ex JW calls Bethel for answers

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there's an interesting youtube where an elderly ex jw, john newsome calls the watchtower with a number of problems he wanted to discuss.

  he told the elder that he wanted to discuss the un scandal, child molestation, failed dates and ray franz.

  the call goes for over half an hour and is very exposing.the bethel elder says he doesn't want to discuss the issues in detail because it would take too long and proceeds to tell him that john needs to look at all of their righteous works.

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  Listener

  There's an interesting Youtube where an Elderly ex JW, John Newsome calls the Watchtower with a number of problems he wanted to discuss. He told the Elder that he wanted to discuss the UN scandal, child molestation, failed dates and Ray Franz. The call goes for over half an hour and is very exposing.
  
  The Bethel Elder says he doesn't want to discuss the issues in detail because it would take too long and proceeds to tell him that John needs to look at all of their righteous works. He also points out that we don't have the whole picture.
  
  Basically it all comes down to the fact that since the GB are not infallible and imperfect, they don't need to explain anything about their wrongdoings. Because God has appointed them as the FDS to take the lead a JW must accept that otherwise having a lack of faith/trust in them is having a lack of faith in Jehovah.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rXLUS2vysk
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  17

  Altered Scriptures?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  my spies tell me that the jobos recently had a broadcast where 2 scriptures have been changed.. luke 22.26you, though, are not to be that way.

  but let the one who is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one taking the lead as the one ministering.. 1 tim 3:1this statement is trustworthy: if a man is reaching out to be an overseer,+ he is desirous of a fine work.

  i don't have the tech to locate the broadcast right now.

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  Listener

  This comes from a Bethel morning worship presented by G Jackson and is shown in the Oct. monthly broadcast with the question "Are Elders taking the lead or are they leaders?" It's at the 40 minute mark. The purpose of his talk appears to be in demonstrating the beauty of their translation over many others, including the KJV and to tell Elders that their role was to take the lead rather than be leaders.
  
  Re Luke 22:26, he states that "obviously, to take the lead means to do the work, to be a minister, to be a servant, to serve others" He then explains, it doesn't mean sitting on the sidelines barking out the orders but it means being involved.
  
  He explains there is another 'subtlety in the revision' regarding taking the lead and is at 1 Tim 3:1 He says "it's not the office or the position of being an overseer that is something people reach out for but it's rather the work. The hard work that needs to be done by an overseer. An overseer needs to recognize that he needs to work hard as setting the right example and then others will follow, rather than just telling everyone what they should do."
  
  He concludes by saying "So the text reminds Elders what they need to do, not sitting on the sidelines barking out orders but rather, to take the lead, to be in the forefront, do the work and then others will follow our example, just as we follow the example of Jesus."
  
  At no time does he explain that Jesus is our leader but rather he says that he was taking a lead in the preaching work. His concluding comments reflect the same idea, otherwise how can Elders follow his example if he is the leader, rather than taking the lead?
  
  IMHO I didn't think it was a very nice way of Jackson to explain that a leader is one who 'sits on the sidelines barking out orders'. Who does he think has this role within their organization?
  
  Given that he was personally 'barking out orders' by telling Elders what role they had, is it really the Governing Body that is barking out the orders as they sit on the sidelines?
  
  https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/WebHomeSlider/pub-jwb_201710_1_VIDEO
  
  
  
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  28

  Special event this weekend

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was talking with a family member today and they said that there is something special going on at the kh this weekend.

  any idea what it is?

  they said that some kind of broadcast from bethel for everyone..

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  Listener

  No, there is nothing special on this weekend. The Annual meeting will be on and goes for over 3 and a half hours. They'll be singing a new song in praise of their new headquarters and most monies collected are specifically for the Watchtower.