Posts by Listener

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

Listener

I see what you're saying Mikejw but it's just making no sense.

Here's an earlier paragraph in the latest Watchtower

We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?

They are talking about the judging of the sheep and goats at Armageddon and state that the sheep must have shown their support for the annointed. Even if a person is honeshearted, they don't say they will survive Armageddon, just that they may get the opportunity to support the annointed. (and therefore survive as having been judged a sheep).

They are being very obscure.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

Listener

MikeJW This is what they were prepared to put in writing in regards to what Jackson said

At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.—Gen. 18:25.

I took him to mean that since unrighteous loved ones will now have an opportunity to return to them or accept them during the GT they can make it through Armageddon (as righteous).

40

Dates and times

by jhine in

last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .

we have been working through the whole letter.

verses 1-11 start with .

Listener

The Watchtower has done it in order to gain followers to them. It’s to make people ‘captive of a concept’.

They become the guard dog even though they might bark, without cause in the middle of the night as Jackson put it. But they get to call the shots and have people look to them for instructions and obedience.

144

Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

by slimboyfat in

i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

Listener

The daily text they will read on December 7, 2024 currently states

He had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.—Rev. 14:6.
The “good news of the Kingdom” is not the only message that God’s people are to declare. (Matt. 24:14) They also need to support the work of the angels who are described in Revelation chapters 8 through 10. These angels announce a series of woes for those who reject God’s Kingdom. Thus, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been declaring a judgment message, likened to “hail and fire,” revealing God’s judgments on the various elements of Satan’s wicked world. (Rev. 8:7, 13) People need to know that the end is near so that they can make drastic changes in their lives and survive Jehovah’s day of anger. (Zeph. 2:2, 3) But this message is not popular. Declaring it calls for courage on our part. During the great tribulation, the final judgment message will become more hard-hitting.—Rev. 16:21. w22.05 7 ¶18-19

They talk about a different message, not the 'good news', that message being woes announced by angels.

It quotes W 22.05

The good news of the Kingdom is not the only message that God’s people are to declare. They also need to support the work of the angels who are described in Revelation chapters 8 through 10. These angels announce a series of woes for those who reject God’s Kingdom. Thus, Jehovah’s Witnesses have been declaring a judgment message, likened to “hail and fire,” revealing God’s judgments on the various elements of Satan’s wicked world. (Rev. 8:7, 13) People need to know that the end is near so that they can make drastic changes in their lives and survive Jehovah’s day of anger. (Zeph. 2:2, 3) But this message is not popular. Declaring it calls for courage on our part. During the great tribulation, the final judgment message will become more hard-hitting.—Rev. 16:21.

But they say that JWs have already been declaring this judgment message, it's just that during the GT it becomes more 'hard hitting'.

5

Nicolas King starting to be removed from website

by neat blue dog in

it took them much longer than expected, but all the wt chorus videos in which he was a member have been removed from the music videos section.

interestingly the audio version of song 141 in which he sings, as well as even his solos like song number 127 all remain, but as we know appearance is all that matters.

also of course his role in the drama "these words must be on your heart" can't be easily fixed but that's less of a problem as he was playing a 'bad guy' to begin with..

Listener

Careful - here's a link with a little more information. You can also google to see how well known he is

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6558031509192704/official-jw-celeb-nicolas-king-publicly-out

Neat Blue Dog, you reported about it 8 months ago. Watchtower is very slow to react. No doubt they are unable to accept any news reports as a witness and had to rely on their professional snooping detectives.

24

What have I been doing for the last few years?

by Lee Marsh in

jw
friends

i used to be here a lot.

every single day almost.

and then i wasn't.. well let's start with a before.

Listener

Nice to hear from you Lady Lee. I think you were a moderator here at one time, or maybe I have it wrong.

It sounds like you've been through a tough challenge with your Cancer and have had to make some big decisions that have worked out well for you.

28

A special video has been released to assist people who have experienced child sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

article.

https://saysorry.org/2024/02/19/jehovahs-witnesses-and-the-australian-national-redress-scheme/.

video.

Listener

JW Leaks I understood it was in regards to child sexual abuse but I didn't expect the line to be drawn for victims 17 and under, I thought it would have been younger than that, under 16 years of age to coincide with the age of consent. But it appears that the age is different when it comes to criminal activity.

12

Watchtower May 2024 Who is being referred to as 'we'?

by Listener in

this is the magazine that presents some of the 'new light' from the oct. 2023 annual meeting.

it discusses some of the things they have now decided they don't know and revised some of the things they do know, or think they know.

when they start discussing some of the things they do know, most of them are still guesses and they use qualifiers.

Listener

This is the magazine that presents some of the 'new light' from the Oct. 2023 Annual Meeting. It discusses some of the things they have now decided they don't know and revised some of the things they do know, or think they know.

When they start discussing some of the things they do know, most of them are still guesses and they use qualifiers. So it often boils down to the fact that they do know something that may be a possibility.

For instance, here are some comments found under the title 'What we do know'

Rather, it seems that Jesus meant what he said...
So it seems that there may be ...
he suggested that there was hope for at least some of them. It seems that ...
it is possible that ..
it is possible...
If a similar development should occur...
It is also reasonable to conclude...
Perhaps some of these ...

As a general comment regarding a bible verse they write

But Jesus’ comment about the people of Sodom and Gomorrah could well be literal, so it is not hyperbole

They are all over the place in what they write.

It is no wonder they are getting more confusing when they write a paragraph like this

2. Jehovah continues to help us to have a clearer understanding of the major events that lie just ahead. (Prov. 4:18; Dan. 2:28) We can be certain that by the time the great tribulation starts, we will know all we need to know in order to endure faithfully and even prosper during that challenging period. However, we must recognize that there are some things that we just do not know about the near future. In this article, we will first discuss why we have reconsidered what we have said about some of those events. Then we will review some of the things that we do know about the future and the way that our heavenly Father will act.

They have used the word 'we' a total of ten times in this paragraph. Sometimes the 'we' refers to the Governing Body/FDS and other times it refers to all JWs. However, they don't even attempt to clarify who they are referring to in each instance. In fact, they do the same thing throughout the whole of the Watchtower.

28

A special video has been released to assist people who have experienced child sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

article.

https://saysorry.org/2024/02/19/jehovahs-witnesses-and-the-australian-national-redress-scheme/.

video.

Listener

I never realised that the Redress Scheme applied to abuse victims who were under 18 years of age.

However, it only applies to victims who were under JW institutional care, custody, supervision, control or authority. Examples given are Kingdom Halls- cleaning, meetings, hall maintenance. At a formal congregation bookstudy meeting held in a private home, receiving assistance under the child witnesses mentoring programs for fatherless boys or spiritual orphans, building construction activities, child minding services, volunteering at conventions, as a student enrolled in the theocratic ministry school, field service whilst in the care of another congregant and a few others.

This is going to limit the amount of claims drastically if most of the abuse has been by other JWs, including Elders/MS's who committed the abuse outside JW settings (such as in private homes, cars, parks etc.)

62

The Vaccine mandate has been lifted, with no explanation or apologies

by redsetter2 in

.

Listener

Redsetter, I am not saying it doesn't sound like a Watchtower document, I just find it interesting how the attribute the decision making.