Posts by Listener

4

Why can a wife have her Husband with her at a JC -BUT

by hamsterbait in

as we are all now aware - the new secret book of the elduhs says that a husband can accompany his wife to a jc.. "because he is her head".

i thought a father or mother was also the "head " of a child.

(baptised or not) yet they are not to be present when a child faces their rapist..... why is a child expected to come before a jc and face the person who molested them alone??.

Listener

Any person that rapes another should be in jail so there would be no opportunity for anyone to meet before elders.

122

Could Watchtower Collapse Be Sooner Than You Think?

by metatron in

jw
friends

there have been a number of developments over the past few months and they paint an interesting picture.. witnesses can keep dragging themselves to meetings ad infinitum however, the future of the watchtower itself is another story.

the evidence of continuing cash flow problems is now overwhelming.

if you talk to well placed witnesses, most won't deny it but simply blame it on the publishers financial problems.. they have cut off loans to congregations many of whom genuinely need new kingdom halls.

Listener

There was a time before the corruption of Judaism culminating at Jesus' earthly existence and there was a time after it. I believe history is repeating itself and there will be a time after this current power structure. I'm struggling not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I believe THIS attack from within is the beginning of the pangs of distress, is a cooling off of the love, and will lead to the Great Tribulation. Prophets and followers of God have always been attacked by their so-called brothers. This will be the last time, though. Jesus is coming and he's going to be mad.

You've hit the nail on the head but how ironic that it would stem from financial woes. This 'cleansing' will lead to a much kinder, loving and humble organisation and will certainly attract others of like kind. Who knows, there may even be posters on here that will once again be happy and enthusiastic to rejoin the loving organisation.

122

Could Watchtower Collapse Be Sooner Than You Think?

by metatron in

jw
friends

there have been a number of developments over the past few months and they paint an interesting picture.. witnesses can keep dragging themselves to meetings ad infinitum however, the future of the watchtower itself is another story.

the evidence of continuing cash flow problems is now overwhelming.

if you talk to well placed witnesses, most won't deny it but simply blame it on the publishers financial problems.. they have cut off loans to congregations many of whom genuinely need new kingdom halls.

Listener

I actually think that a big expansion is in the making myself. The drama this year focused on parents helping their youth with interactive family studies, get-togethers, etc. If the congos actually apply all that, the real love will come, and many, many will be attracted. The dates don't seem so important now, which is a big plus. And the "Keep Yourself in God's Love" book being used in the Bible Study mid-week meeting is helping us to think and reason things out for ourselves regarding conscience matters.

Spike this is really such good news, it means they are finally heading in the right direction.

96

Understanding Revelation (According to the JWs)

by brotherdan in

debator (or any other current jw on the board),.

will you please explain to me the understanding of how the 7 trumpet blasts in revelation were fulfilled?

has it already happened?

Listener

Thanks designs, that makes more sense in order to account for the numbers and also means a significant change in belief. So I am gathering that the earthly hope was never thought of until around 1935.

96

Understanding Revelation (According to the JWs)

by brotherdan in

debator (or any other current jw on the board),.

will you please explain to me the understanding of how the 7 trumpet blasts in revelation were fulfilled?

has it already happened?

Listener

Watchtower 2002 4/15
Referring to Jesus’ unique position, the CyclopediaofBiblical,Theological,andEcclesiasticalLiterature says: “The object of prayer is God alone, through Jesus Christ as the Mediator. All supplications, therefore, to saints or angels are not only useless, but blasphemous. All worship of the creature, however exalted that creature is, is idolatry, and is strictly prohibited in the sacred law of God.”
W 2002 7/1

Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular “saints,” asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.

W 1979 4/1
?
The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see AidtoBibleUnderstanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s“EternalPurpose”NowTriumphingforMan’sGood, page 160, paragraph 10; also TheWatchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.”
W 69 1/15

What a cause for joy to have the Son’s favor! So, one who enters into a dedicated relationship with Jehovah and who accepts Jesus as his Mediator automatically receives responsibilities; one also receives many blessings and much joy.
W 66 8/1

Baptism is rightly performed by dedicated men; so Peter was sent. Of special interest to one wishing to make his dedication to God is the act of faith known as prayer. When one makes his dedication he prays to Jehovah in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son, the Mediator between God and man
w 61 4/1
What Jesus was illustrating here was the fact that he is mankind’s Mediator with God. By virtue of the ransom sacrifice that purchased mankind, all people must approach God through him. “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) As a shepherd leads his sheep into the protective confines of the sheepfold as well as takes them out to pasture, so Jesus Christ cares for those who, by their faith, prove to be his Father’s sheep.

12

Preperation for Armageddon

by Listener in

i dislike the way that the publications promote such excitement for armageddon.

i have only ever met one jw that actually suggested that anyone dying beforehand may be fortunate as they will not have to face the horrors of armageddon.

anyway, it would make a lot of sense if the gb somehow focused on preservation during this time as many will die due to the nature of what will occur.

Listener

God's people will be protected at the point where God is waging war, god has promised that -

That will be “the war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Armageddon, the finale with regard to this system of things. (Revelation 16:14, 16) The entire “book” will show that Almighty God has never lost a fight, or battle.

But there will be things that happen on earth before that great day

Prior to the outbreak of God’s war, Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, will have been destroyed. Satan the Devil and the irreligious political demolishers of Babylon the Great will resent the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses will be the only religious group to survive. World rulers will not have attained their goal of a godless world. So, now, forward to the all-out attack upon the worshipers of Jehovah, whose universal sovereignty they deny and defy! Thus they will actually be fighting against God.—Revelation 17:14, 16; compare Acts 5:39.

Do you think that this will happen peacefully and that no mankind will come to harm?

12

Preperation for Armageddon

by Listener in

i dislike the way that the publications promote such excitement for armageddon.

i have only ever met one jw that actually suggested that anyone dying beforehand may be fortunate as they will not have to face the horrors of armageddon.

anyway, it would make a lot of sense if the gb somehow focused on preservation during this time as many will die due to the nature of what will occur.

Listener

Cameo-d I believe it is not something that JWs, in general, reflect on. As it represents a quickly approaching restoration of God's Kingdom on earth this is the more important focus and a means to that achievement. They very rarely talk about witnesses dying during armagedon but it would appear that some loss would be inevitable - that is, only at the hands of man. I can't find anything at the moment that supports this view from a JW standpoint but I have heard it said by JWs One watchtower magazine says the following.

As the nations use their deadly weapons on one another and threaten to destroy the environment, the Maker of the earth will take action—at the Biblical Armageddon! (Revelation 11:18)

It is likely some will get caught in the crossfire or from other calamaties that will be occurring. However, if this was to happen they would have the prospect of resurrection. There will be some protection provided by God but the extent of this and at what stage is not known (that I am aware of).

96

Understanding Revelation (According to the JWs)

by brotherdan in

debator (or any other current jw on the board),.

will you please explain to me the understanding of how the 7 trumpet blasts in revelation were fulfilled?

has it already happened?

Listener

Thank you for your response djeggnog and you have misunderstood me in certain instances. I am not a scholar at expressing my views correctly. But I do take note of your strong comments and possibly a little derogative (e.g. that I don't have a fundamental knowledge of the bible). But your comments are quite understandable in your defence and also your firm committment of truth.

What I have a problem is the fulfillment of the trumpets was relating to a third of Chistendom and not to the all of false religion. Also that it relates to a series of concurrent conventions where they are not the only conventions that have trumpeted important information and light.

I have not looked so closely at the religious beliefs for many years now and have only just started to do this again, my aim is to determine whether I can once again put my trust in the organisation and truelly believe all that they are teaching. I have been let down deeply by the organization many years ago and became so disillusioned by what happened that I could not continue with the same dedication I had - to the organisation but not my love of Jehovah. I have been told that the organisation is made up of imperfect men who make mistakes but because I lost my trust in them there was no point in continuing on with the deepest respect that was required.

My renewed desire for understanding better has possibily been started out on a wrong premise and that is that the JWs may not be the only religion with followers that are earnestly seeking and having a good relationship with God. This means that not just JWs have the promise of salvation but many others do also. As I start to find how many incorrect and change doctrines/ideas the JWs have the more I am leaning to this idea.

There is no question in my mind that many JWs are faithfull and serving God to the best of their ability and as you say it is not for me to judge them anyway. But there are others that are doing this also and the JWs will not and do not acknowledge this and in fact testify that they will be destroyed. That is not for us to judge and not for the organisation to judge either but there are endless articles that state all other religions have false teachings and those in their faith will be destroyed. Yet there have been false teachings and false expectations from the JWs but somehow they are the only ones that are excused of this.

You have scolded me and scolded me well. Maybe you can help clear my mind about the following ideas that have particularly stumbled me-

The organisation says that Jesus is not mediator to all but only to the annointed although we can all benefit from this covenant arrangement. However, all JWs which include the annointed and great crowd are told that they should pray through the name of Jesus. This then makes him a mediator for the great crowd which the org says he is not. The only thing I can find about this is that this arrangement is a sign of respect from the great crowd and to acknowledge that this arrangement exists. But by praying through Jesus he has automatically become the mediator.

The other thing is about the annointed class. Somehow my earlier teachings did not make it clear about the idea that up until 1935 or thereabouts all JWs had the heavenly promise only. Now this raises questions that I am unable to clarify from my own research. Does this mean faithful ones from Jesus time until 1935 also had only the heavently promise? I doubt it because the numbers would surely add up to far greater than 144,000. How is it that a religion for a period of time would only be avalable to those that God wanted to choose as his annointed and not to all people?

12

Preperation for Armageddon

by Listener in

i dislike the way that the publications promote such excitement for armageddon.

i have only ever met one jw that actually suggested that anyone dying beforehand may be fortunate as they will not have to face the horrors of armageddon.

anyway, it would make a lot of sense if the gb somehow focused on preservation during this time as many will die due to the nature of what will occur.

Listener

Surprise, surprise the Dec watchtower has 'Are you ready for Armageddon' It will be interesting to see what it says as opposed to what the org is doing itself.

12

Preperation for Armageddon

by Listener in

i dislike the way that the publications promote such excitement for armageddon.

i have only ever met one jw that actually suggested that anyone dying beforehand may be fortunate as they will not have to face the horrors of armageddon.

anyway, it would make a lot of sense if the gb somehow focused on preservation during this time as many will die due to the nature of what will occur.

Listener

I dislike the way that the publications promote such excitement for Armageddon. I have only ever met one JW that actually suggested that anyone dying beforehand may be fortunate as they will not have to face the horrors of Armageddon.

Anyway, it would make a lot of sense if the GB somehow focused on preservation during this time as many will die due to the nature of what will occur. But there may be things they can do to give themselves a better chance of surviving.

After reading a few posts on here there seems to be some indication of it. One is this idea of 'fleeing to the mountains' which is not understood yet. Another is the fact that Bethel is moving to different locations and changing their administration of publishing.

Also I was just reading that the Elders have been told that no-one other than another elder can read their special reports from the GB.

Of course the most important work that the GB feels it needs to promote is the witnessing work. If they actually came out and told everyone of their preperations for Armageddon then it would slow this work up and not good in their minds as it needs to be ramped up at the time of the end. So in effect they are possibly finally being discreet in a matter and this may be it. The GB would also be painted as hypocrytes if they were preparing for the earthly war like conditions that are to come.

What started me on this line of thought is that I have heard of a lady who is in their late 40's, couldn't be more dedicated, has always pioneered, is in no way interested in material things, has never been interested in working and very committed to serving the Organization as best she can. She has an elder as her husband. Within the last year she has taken up studies to become a Nurse. Now that would not be handy for the new system and only helpful for Armageddon.

What is your thought on this?