Posts by Listener

45

The Mother of All Watchtower Errors

by Perry in

yes ... i call it the mother of them all, why?

and i make a covenant with you just as my father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.

Listener

When researching their publications the definition of the new covenant is very obscure and just to complicate things further is their idea that there are two covenants - Insight P 1126 " When mediating the new covenant Jesus made an additional covenant with his followers.. 'for a kingdom'."

They say this covenant is with the spiritual Israel of God and only the 144,000 belong to this. Because revelation talks about judging the Israel of God they say that as it is not the 'spiritual' Israel it means all of mankind.

They have closed the doors tof the Kingdom of God for the Great Crowd or 99.7% of their believers.

7

Them be some special in Jehobah's eyes.

by therevealer in

***w092/15pp.24-26pars.3-7they"keepfollowingthelamb"***.

3 jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics," that is, the individual members of the slave class, "to give them their food at the proper time.

" he has also appointed the slave "over all his belongings.

Listener

1 Cor 3
1And so, brothers, I was not able to speak to YOU as to spiritual men, but as to fleshly men, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed YOU milk, not something to eat, for YOU were not yet strong enough. In fact, neither are YOU strong enough now, 3 for YOU are yet fleshly. For whereas there are jealousy and strife among YOU, are YOU not fleshly and are YOU not walking as men do? 4 For when one says: “I belong to Paul,” but another says: “I to A·pol′los,” are YOU not simply men?
5
What, then, is A·pol′los? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom YOU became believers, even as the Lord granted each one. 6 I planted, A·pol′los watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow. 8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one, but each [person] will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers. YOU people are God’s field under cultivation, God’s building.

This clearly shows that the annointed are fleshly men, they are not yet spiritual men and as such they are ministers only. So why are people dedicating their lives to ministers?

61

The New Covenant Discussion

by Listener in

i left the org many years ago as a teenager.

i started looking more closely at their doctrines a few months ago to work out if they really have the truth.

when i cam across the notion that jesus is not mediator for everyone i was startled and have been looking at the issue a lot more closely.

Listener

Reading some of the quoted material brought to mind the penalty that was imposed for those not participating in the passover. It brought into question what was the loss for not participating in the passover.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

The term 'no life in you' is explained by the JWs to mean W 2003 9/15 '

"Rather, internal completeness, or fullness, is indicated. Thus, the expression “life in yourselves” used at John 6:53 simply means entering into the very fullness of life."

Therefore the great crowd/other sheep cannot experience this.

7

Why is Elder Book called KS10-E & Should I Tell My Friend?

by InterestedOne in

i just glanced over the new elder book, and being an outsider, i was pretty amazed.

i'm so thankful to be aware of this.

couple questions:.

Listener

It's not really a secret book but some JWs may not know about it and elders are not allowed to show anyone else it.

It would be open of you to tell her about it. She may not be interested in seeing it but I don't believe they have been told not to look at it and it is just that the elders have been told not to show it. She may be happy to know that you take a keen interest in her religion but unhappy if you have obtained it illegally (such as an illegal download).

4

JW's - an international organization?

by Listener in

i always thought the jws were an internation organization but it appears they don't consider themselves to be that.. this was in a letter found on google was written by wt loyd vice president of the wtbs australia, it was a submission to be treated as a charity.. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qahsgte4vysj:www.cdi.gov.au/submissions/357-watchtowerbibleandtractsocietyofaustralia.doc+watchtower+bible+and+tract+society+of+australia+financial+report&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=adgeeshqa1b_fsujltkvmgfjcx1_ba5vup35fhuri35cmc4ndprw6ny-rofdcp8lbyzwio5ou--0bwurdjivxt_5m8fnmy9vdr0qeue-e2pxt2k6jpvzcy2ja4d7njakxcaqlujyxjkf&sig=ahietbrtufqf8i7kxtys0qlvyejniqq5ww.

issues regarding definitions used in australia compared to other countries.

the society is not an international organization having branches in other countries.. however, jehovahs witnesses are worldwide, and a different not-for-profit organization.

Listener

Not a bad stratedgy. It also means limited liability.

25

Untoward Rage towards The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

by Band on the Run in

my extended family were all jehovah's witnesses from the bible students day.

my father was immense and chosen as a bodyguard to both judge (spurious title) and nathan knorr.

bethel was very small then so he knew fred franz, covington, henshel well.

Listener

Band on the run said "How I interact with other people is a more telling test of my Christianity"

Exactly and not the hours of door to door work that are required to be reported each month

80

Is the WTBTS having cash flow problems?

by JW GoneBad in

i was at a 2 day circuit assembly this weekend and i was surprised at how many times mention was made directly or indirectly reminding those in attendance (1,600) of the need to give $$$.

even in the soliloquies or skits they seemed to work in the need to give $$$.. it made me wonder if the society is having 'cash flow' problems and hence is desparate for cash.

over the years that i've attended conventions and assemblies the need to give $$$ has been subtle (imo), til now.

Listener

Hi Debator, you said the following

since I have a witness friend that has only recently come back from haiti and helping out there I know for a fact you are sadly mistaken.
Remember this though we are not paying out donations to take the responsibility off our shoulders! Whether we donate or not. We ourselves have a personal responsibility to others in need around us.
If you felt an elderly widowed sister in the congregation was neglected why didn't you go and call on her offering help?

I was talking about the org. They donate a pittence and their motivation is likely to be for tax status.

Was your witness friend provided with money for her own expenses and to provide aid when she was there by the org?

Why would the widowed sister have to be elderly in order to provide help to her and in fact why would she even need to be in the congregation. Your question is very telling indeed. My answer, though, is that I was a youngster and I looked up to my more mature brothers and sisters to provide an example. I don't recall seeing that happen. Oh wait, yes I did, they were often picked up and taken home from meetings.

That reminds me. There was an elder who's wife was going on a holiday and he was overwhelmed with offers from sisters to look after his young children. He had so many offers he was in a dilema as to whom he should select so decided to share the burden amongst a few of them.

4

JW's - an international organization?

by Listener in

i always thought the jws were an internation organization but it appears they don't consider themselves to be that.. this was in a letter found on google was written by wt loyd vice president of the wtbs australia, it was a submission to be treated as a charity.. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qahsgte4vysj:www.cdi.gov.au/submissions/357-watchtowerbibleandtractsocietyofaustralia.doc+watchtower+bible+and+tract+society+of+australia+financial+report&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=adgeeshqa1b_fsujltkvmgfjcx1_ba5vup35fhuri35cmc4ndprw6ny-rofdcp8lbyzwio5ou--0bwurdjivxt_5m8fnmy9vdr0qeue-e2pxt2k6jpvzcy2ja4d7njakxcaqlujyxjkf&sig=ahietbrtufqf8i7kxtys0qlvyejniqq5ww.

issues regarding definitions used in australia compared to other countries.

the society is not an international organization having branches in other countries.. however, jehovahs witnesses are worldwide, and a different not-for-profit organization.

Listener

I always thought the JWs were an internation organization but it appears they don't consider themselves to be that.

This was in a letter found on google was written by WT Loyd Vice President of the WTBS Australia, it was a submission to be treated as a Charity.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qAhsGtE4vysJ:www.cdi.gov.au/submissions/357-WatchtowerBibleandTractSocietyofAustralia.doc+watchtower+bible+and+tract+society+of+australia+financial+report&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShqa1b_fSujlTKVmGFjcX1_Ba5vUp35FHuRi35cMc4nDPrw6Ny-RofDCP8LBYZwIo5Ou--0BwuRDJIvxt_5m8fnMy9vdr0qeUE-E2pxT2k6JPVzcY2Ja4d7nJakXCAQLUjYXjKf&sig=AHIEtbRtUFQf8i7kXtys0qlVyEjNIQq5Ww

Issues Regarding Definitions Used in Australia Compared to Other Countries
The Society is not an international organization having branches in other countries.
However, Jehovah’s Witnesses are worldwide, and a different not-for-profit organization
is registered in each country. The structures of these corporations vary according to the
laws applying in each country. In some countries, such as the United States of America
and New Zealand, donors to our religious organizations are exempt from gift duty and
may claim tax deductions for donations made to the church.

Anyway, they were given charity status but not charity deductible status, which means people donating the the Australian org do not get a tax deduction.

The WBTS Australia has registered as a Public Company ABN 42 002 861 225 ACN 002 861 225. Their financial reports are available through ASIC for a fee and their 2005 report is on the internet.

http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/personal-files-privacy-act-1988.php

I wasn't able to make a screen copy to attach it here.

61

The New Covenant Discussion

by Listener in

i left the org many years ago as a teenager.

i started looking more closely at their doctrines a few months ago to work out if they really have the truth.

when i cam across the notion that jesus is not mediator for everyone i was startled and have been looking at the issue a lot more closely.

Listener

I understand now why many call the memorial the Reject Jesus Party.

Even though they protest that they hold the memorial often, it is far from being often. It is so important and I can only imagine that they do not want to draw too much attention to it as they deny 99.85% of JWs to enter into this covenant. Even the idea that it must be held only on a certain date each year (routinely) is not within the spirit of Jesus' new teachings, which was encouraging followers to do things from our heart and not by any written, prescriptive rules.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Listener

debator
nice try! but everything is from God humbleness is not a sin.
1 peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God.
Giving credit to God is not claiming inspiration.

You really twist things around Debator. Giving credit to God for words that are spoken when later they are changed and admitted to being wrong then they can't be speaking God's words in the first place. That would make it very much a dishonour to God.

What do you mean everything is from God? It cannot be from God when his word from the bible is added to, misinterpreted, misconstued, twisted, taken out of context and manipulated and then given credit back to him. It is wrong.

Humbleness is taking God's word and clearly explaining that any interpretation of those words is acknowledged as being not from God, but their own human understanding and open to further clarification. Do they do this? Most of the time, no. Even worse, they put the onus on God as being his words.

"If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God". This means that they should only speak those words that can be and are from God. If they are wrong then they should not have spoken.