Posts by Nickolas

176

For non-believers: What evidence would it take for you to believe in 'god'?

by jay88 in

jw
friends

it all comes down to evidence (but funny how we tend not to accept the evidence that indicates that what be actually believe to be true might be wrong).. this is a statement made by nick in previous thread of his.. >>>>>>>>>>.

if the ot 'god' reappeared today, would that be evidence of 'god'?.

jay, .

Nickolas

And for some, it never happens untill they die and all is revealed.

I chose to quote this assertion (from PSac) among many like it in this thread because it typifies my personal estimation of what is wrong with faith. Nobody can legitimately assert with confidence what happens after death, but people still do, along with other, equally unprovable assertions. I do not begrudge the faithful their assertions, but I cannot seriously consider them either. Then PSac said this:

We can't prove the existsence of multiple universes, but I am open to the possibility.

Ok, but would you not agree that one would be foolish to live his life according to something that is just a possibility in his mind?

This is the answer (provided by White Dove early on). This is what it would take for me:

If you are God, then produce my dead loved ones as living, pitty peez.

But I do not expect it will happen, alas. And this (Terry) is why:

Reality is potent; accept no substitutes!

As usual, the most succinct answer (thetrueone) is probably the best one:

The answer is within the question.

Although this (superpunk) deserves honourable mention:

In science, we're used to incremental progress and revision of our ideas. Evidence is our currency, it's how we progress and it's what gets results. It is a category error, however, to think that the way to address free-floating word salad and flaming nonsense is to take the scalpel of reason and empiricism and slice into it, looking for definable edges. No, what you do is look over the snot-ball of self-referential piffle, note that it has no tenable connection to reality, and drop-kick it into the rec room, where the kids can play with it, but no one should ever take it seriously.

Tammy: or 3) Some cannot hear because they do not want to, or something is getting in the way (such as anger, fear, lack of faith, negative emotions, etc.)

Or, Tammy, they cannot hear despite complete openness and despite being completely at peace with themselves and the world around them, and they cannot hear because he isn't there. I might paraphrase what you said in this way: or some hear because they want to.

I read this thread because I want to keep my mind open to ideas that may not have occurred to me. But by the time I get to posting my comment it's always the same. I know I'll read the next, similarly themed thread, and the one after that, and the one after that, etc. But I still have to wonder why we have this same conversation over and over and over and over and over again and despite sometimes lucid and brilliant argument and logic nobody ever changes his position.

By the way, I have an invisible dragon in my garage ....

9

Spiritual vs religous

by darth frosty in

i write this in light of brodans post about evolution and his religous fervor.. .

i classify myself as a spiritual atheist.

i do not believe in the big 3 mainstream gods presented by religions today.

Nickolas

Have you dabbled in Buddhism, df? I'm not advocating it - I barely understand it myself - but from what I know it is not inconsistent with what you so eloquently expressed above.

I don't see a parallel perspective with the four individuals you mention, beyond that they eschew organised religion. They're all still Christians and worshippers of the Creator of the universe, after all. Perhaps the appropriate term is esoteric Christians, although I suspect neither would wholeheartedly agree. However, where they differ from the 101%-certain-there-is-a-God crowd is they will listen, consider and offer counter arguments with poise and intelligence, even if they will not in the end concede the main point on the basis of faith.

It sounds like you're in a good place.

4

The good stuff

by beksbks in

miracles in japan: four-month old baby, 70-year old woman found aliveby william lee adams william lee adams tue mar 15, 7:20 pm et end .byline amid the silent corpses a baby cried out - and japan met its tiniest miracle.. on march 14 soldiers from the japanese defense force were going door-to-door, pulling bodies from homes flattened by the earthquake and tsunami in ishinomaki city, a coastal town northeast of senda.

more accustomed to the crunching of rubble and the sloshing of mud than to the sound of life, they dismissed the baby's cry as a mistake.

until they heard it again.

Nickolas

Thanks for posting, beksbks. Always a silver lining.

Good night.

172

The impossible delusion of evolution

by brotherdan in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmgkrkj5la.

Nickolas

Amen, OTWO.

18

What is happiness ??

by caliber in

jw
friends

what is happiness?

peace, serenity, music to calm the soul.. .

happiness can mean different things to different people.

Nickolas

peace of mind, acceptance, love given and received, warmth, shelter, a full stomach, a warm bed on a Saturday morning, a spectacular summer sunset, holding your baby while she smiles and burbles at you, clean air and water, springtime, a really good curry, Guinness, graduating college, rewarding work, retiring, independence, the silent expression of love in the eyes of your spouse, teaching your child how to ride a bike, catching the big one, leaving home, coming home, a meteor shower, a hot bath, fresh sheets against naked skin, helping someone in need with no expectation of compensation, being helped, a ripe peach right off the tree, a glass of Penfolds Grange with a slice of old cheddar and a wedge of pear, walking naked on a deserted beach in the pouring rain, skinnydipping, music, finding your groove in a game, fluency of thought, knowledge, ignorance, a kitten's purr, a dog's greeting, a snifter of Lagavulun against the background of a crackling fire, teaching, learning, a good dump, a rose garden, seeing whales, a breeze off the ocean, connecting with someone, letting go but still loving and remembering, spooning, holding hands, your mother's smile and your father's strength, finding something you've lost, losing a monkey on your back, getting well, finishing what you have begun, a phone call from a long lost friend, not needing to say anything to be understood, solitude, company, being appreciated, appreciating, the aurora against the milky way ...

172

The impossible delusion of evolution

by brotherdan in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmgkrkj5la.

Nickolas

I'm assuming that Daniel has made his exit, based on past experience. So I'll address my comments to this thread's participants.

I've read the entire thread but didn't watch the videos, just because what people actually have to say is more interesting, and as usual some of it has added to my own understanding of things. The greatest thing about this board is the generosity of its participants sharing their minds. A key observation of this thread could be that people are taking precious time out of their lives to reach out to Daniel, in an attempt to help him add to his own understanding. Love, maybe? It's something like that, otherwise, why bother?

I'm getting the impression that Daniel's mind is in turmoil. He joined this board not quite a year ago, still a devout Christian but having some doubts about the legitimacy of the WTBTS. His earlier posts are an indication that he was a searcher for truth within an absolute faith in Christianity and was not prepared for the assault to his sensibilities from those who have been where he is but who have moved on. He got more than he bargained for and his life is now more complicated as a consequence.

It takes a great deal of effort to hold onto religious faith when you're confronted with facts and evidence to the contrary. In a perverse sort of way, the WTBTS admonishment not to doubt, not to question what you've been told to believe, not to associate with people who do not believe (especially apostates, who are the most dangerous because of their knowledge and expertise in all things Watchtower) and just accept everything, is sound advice. Ignorance is bliss, and the path to enlightenment is really a gauntlet.

172

The impossible delusion of evolution

by brotherdan in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmgkrkj5la.

Nickolas

Just noticing this but haven't read it. 6 pages in 7 hours? Congratulations bd. That has to be some kind of record. I'm wondering what you said this time.

I'll read it tomorrow, maybe.

37

Let's make a deal

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

i'm an atheist, my wife's a jehovah's witness.

each of us knocks on your door and has something to sell to you.

it's up to you to choose.

Nickolas

cyberjesus gets the prize. It all comes down to evidence (but funny how we tend not to accept the evidence that indicates that what be actually believe to be true might be wrong).

24

TV's best Series-ending episodes

by Nickolas in

and now for something a little lighter.. i enjoy well made movies and television series, especially when they push the envelope, do something different.

there are currently two tv series i'm following closely (dexter and breaking bad), both of which have great promise for spectacular endings.. here are my biased rankings for a few television series that actually wrapped up with a final episode (out of 10).

m*a*s*h, "goodbye, farewell and amen" - february 28, 1983, after eleven seasons - 7/10 (series went on too long, got stale, ending was overdue).

Nickolas

Someone gave me Deadwood on DVD. I watched the first couple of episodes and couldn't get into it. Do you recommend it?

Yeah, Giordano, the ending of The Sopranos should have been really shocking, like Tony getting his brains blown out along with his entire family. That would have been memorable, and much more satisfying.

41

Look at the Bonobo, the Peaceful Bonobo

by Satanus in

jw
friends

peaceful bonobos may have something to teach humans.

march 8, 2011 by miles o' brien and ann kellan.

brian hare, assistant professor of evolutionary anthropology at duke university, spends several months of the year in the democratic republic of congo, where he studies bonobos.

Nickolas

The link is great, MS! I've only read the forward but can already see that the author is one man who is absolutely convinced that he is right and everybody else is wrong. I forgot to count how many times he used the words "arrogant" or "religious zealout" in reference to the reader, as his way of luring the reader into the site to explore his proof. The insult the reader approach. Unique. I wonder if the Nobel Committee has seen it, yet? However, I am interpreting your link to come directly from you. As the words you would say, so it's time to call a truce. As much as I was thoroughly enjoying the conversation, it's now gone sour. But to do a post mortem: The thread went offtrack because I responded to V's conjecture:

IF there are other intelligent species in other parts of the universe who are aggressive and war-like, I doubt we'd fare well against them if we were too much like the Bonobos.

The conjecture supposes that we as humans would not fare well against an invading intelligent species from some other part of the universe. I took it as a serious conjecture. Perhaps I should not have. The conversation went to the probability of life existing elsewhere in the galaxy (which is a tiny, tiny fraction of the universe) to narrow the scope a bit, then it went to distances between planets with intelligent life, then to relativity and how it restricts speed to c, then to lack of existing evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence, then to the probability of being visited by extraterrestrials in the next 100 years. We didn't even get to talk about the probability of the existence of a highly advanced civilisation existing anywhere in the universe including our galaxy, or any verifyable evidence that aliens have ever visited Earth. There's no precedent. Accept this if you can. On the basis of just that, it's very unlikely that you or I will ever meet an extraterrestrial. You guys disagree with this proposition, so you introduce wormholes and space time distortion and other things not excluded by relativity but none of which has a single mathematical proof. Relativity also doesn't exclude fairies in the garden. It just doesn't address the stuff. Physics, not philosophy, is the ultimate level of human language describing what we really understand. Nothing else in human terms describes the real world as precisely as does physics and it is largely because of physics that we live in the age we do. Physicists exercise conjecture constantly, and they talk openly about it. That's how they come up with their expanded perceptions of reality. But it is only when they provide a proof, a new theory, that our understanding can be translated into language and set a new benchmark for the next challenge. Right now the benchmark is relativity. The rest is still up in the air.

I need to ask you guys a couple of questions. Please don't take offense if I'm wrong. I don't worry at all that extraterrestrials will one day visit us but perhaps you do? Do you also not believe in evolution through natural selection? For the record, I do. We as a species have come to this particular advanced stage of our intelligence that we are just now talking about the possibility of interstellar travel by aliens. We'll, we've been obsessing about it since the 50's, but that's still recent vs a billion years. No proof yet exists but we're now smart enough as a species to even attempt to develop one and if we did, it would be a remarkable coincidence if aliens just now decided to show up. Maybe Jesus will, too.

My wife is a Jehovah's Witness. That's why I'm come to this board (and I bet you thought it was to debate shit that doesn't matter). She suffers from dillusion, at least that's what I believe. She can't provide proofs for what she believes and she also can't process things that I put forward as proof that the Society to which she has belonged for 33 years is not what it represents itself to be and that what she believes but can't prove may be false. Cognitive dissonance.

No hard feelings, guys. You guys are smart and a blast to talk to, and it was a good conversation while it lasted. I'm movin' on.