Posts by Ludwig

24

Me and my story... Issues, issues, issues

by bottleofwater in

my parents learned the truth when i was about 2 years old or so and they got baptized when i was 4.. they came from ukraine from the former soviet union and i was born months after they came to brooklyn.. they started studying with a sister who was american and joined the first russian group in brooklyn.. my brother was born when i was 5. we moved to staten island when i was 8 or 9.. ever since i was 14 or 15, i realized an attraction to guys.. of course, i kept on putting it off as a phase or an "everyone feels this way" excuse.. and yes, i had lots of crushes on guys, but i didn't tell others because it was hard to face the facts.. around 18 years of age, we were having our family study and my dad said that if a person even has gay thoughts then they can't be a pioneer, etc.. and he was an elder and a coordinator of the body of elders.. i got depressed and cried for days and eventually this got me to feel the need to tell someone about it.. i told my 14 year old brother (the other younger one is 7) about it because he keeps his mouth shut all the time.. he didn't react at all really.

eventually i felt like i had to tell my pioneer mom about it (by the way, i've been pioneering since 18 years of age due to knowing that that would be the only reason why my dad would pay for my college education).. she reacted with mixed feelings of denial, also attacking me and making it look like i'm disgusting, immoral, this and that.... eventually i told someone my age about this in my congregation, as he was also a neighbor of ours.

he was a bit more feminine acting, though i wasn't sure if he was gay or not (though the sisters had their rumors) (i'm more of the masc type it seems).

Ludwig

Thanks for sharing your story. I think you're on the right track.

49

How do I cut off pioneering?

by bottleofwater in

i'm 19 and trying to get a job.

my dad won't pay for my college if i don't pioneer.. if i get a job, i can't pioneer while in college.. i can supposedly work and study, but i need a good way to get rid of pioneering (it was never my idea in the first place - blame the parents with their social coercion).. if i stop pioneering, i will be told by my parents that i don't love jehovah (not that i care what they say).. how can i do this as painlessly as possible?.

i want to move out someday and have enough money to do this.. by the way, if you read my started topics you will see my situation in more detail and that my dad is the coordinator of the boe..

Ludwig

I suggest that you first decide which college or university you want to attend and then go on campus and talk to someone in the financial aid department. I'm sure you'll have to fill out a FAFSA application http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/. There is a problem since you're 19 and if you're under the age of 24 and beginning your first degree, you may need to provide parental information on the FAFSA. Since your parents are not willing to provide you with that information, I suggest you talk with a financial aid advisor on campus and explain your situation. Maybe they can find a way to help you out without the cooperation of your parents.

Keep in mind that you might want to consider moving out of the house and live in a dorm. That might increase your loan amount, but it's a good way to avoid pioneering altogether. Once you're out of the house, you can ditch meetings and field service and go to school with a job on the side. For the sake of saving money, I think you should begin at a community college and complete those general requirement courses. However, community colleges don't provide student housing.

However, you're still 19 and you can wait a year or two before going to college, while saving money for a place to live. You should definitely get a job and eventually move out of the house. I regret not moving out. My idea was to stay at home and save money while going to class full-time (I began college before the organization began discouraging college again). I eventually got the degree, but due to this economy and not having a lot of work experience, I'm still living at home with my Witness parents. If you're anything like me, you probably fear how your parents would react if they found out that you want to go to college and don't want to spend your life in the organization. Please, don't fall into the trape of feeling that you need to ask your parent's permission to live your life.

Those are some options from the top of my head. If you have any questions about college or anything else, you can PM me.

9

How Evangelical Fundamentalists and Witnesses are joined at the Hip

by designs in

both groups teach and preach an us vs them mentality.

the saved and unsaved world, and those in the truth and those not in the truth.. those not in each groups favored circle are considered heretics or apostates.

families are torn apart over arbitrary church rules.. both groups teach and unsavory cruel concept of a supreme being who has it in for humanity by sending them to hell fire or the second death at armageddon.

Ludwig

What I find amusing is how they try to evade being labeled fundamentalists by stipulating a very narrow definition of what it means to be a Fundamentalist. I know of at least two Watchtower articles that try to prove that Witnesses are not fundamentalists. One was in a Watchtower dated in the 90's, but I don't have it right off hand. The second one is very recent, in the August 2010 Watchtower on page 7. Here's what they said:

"Fundamentalism is a broad movement within Protestantism in the United States," Says the The World Encyclopedia. Some Fundamentalist organizations "have adopted social and political positions based on a literal use of Biblical texts." That definition does not fit Jehovah's Witnesses. As mentioned, they abstain from politics and do not impose their views on others by political or any other means. Rather, they converse with people, usually one-on-one, using reason and convincing evidence, in imitation of the early Christians.–Acts 19:8.

By using a definition that emphasizes political activity, they try to exclude themselves from being labeled. They exclude all the other attributes that would definitely include them, such as the literal interpretation of scripture, a suspicion of outsiders, a sense of alienation from secular culture, a distrust of educational institutions, and the belief in the inerrancy of scripture. If they bothered to read more authoritative sources on Fundamentalism, besides encyclopedias used by elementary students, they would have a harder time trying to exclude themselves.

As if this self-serving definition weren't silly enough, they included the last sentence. Sure, they abstain from politics, but their opinions are less neutral as their willing to admit. They're definitely against gay marriage and that opinion places them closer to cultural conservatives. They disapprove of warfare and that seems like a liberal position. Of course they don't impose their views on others, just their own children. Instead, they use propaganda and flimsy reasoning on people not in the position to adequately evaluate Witness dogma. They certainly can't evaluate the historical claim that early Christians went door-to-door, handing out scrolls.

They offer this silly definition because Witnesses don't like all the negative connotations that come with the Fundamentalist label. Perhaps if they stopped acting like Fundamentalists, people will stop calling them Fundamentalists.

(By the way, if anyone has access to that older Watchtower discussion on Fundamentalism and would like to post it, that would be great. Like I said before, that Watchtower is from the early '90s.)