Posts by Curtains

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

The most interesting thing about the Rodney Stark's book is that it tries to provide a sociological model for how christianity spread so fast. It suggests the idea of networking and somehow Terry is packaging this with his own opinion which does have misogynistic overtones (Terry you have to admit this is true). I'm saying this becuase I don't think Rodney Stark suggests anything misogynistic.

Rodney Starks ideas are based on assumptions and guesswork because there is no concrete proof of the numbers he suggests and he sometimes contradicts his own assumptions. However the model of networking he suggests does have merit and makes sense. I can agree that women probably networked and that this did to an extent cause christianity to increase. But then again men and women have always networked so networking is not peculiar to christianity.

I think that as others have suggested lots of different forces came together but the main engine for the spread of christianity,imo, was that the Roman empire was very tolerant and that it finally defined and assimilated christianity.

edit - Judaism maintained its resistance to Rome much more than Christianity and that is part of the reason they did not grow as exponentially. Plus they were very persecuted by the Christians.

20

Murray Smith says goodbye

by sizemik in

jw
friends

hiyall .

don't panic, i know i've only been here a short while .

but i'm not really going.. when i joined i did so with such enthusiastic haste, i used my actual name.

Curtains

I like your new name

43

Mixed marriages - JW/non-JW - what makes you stay?

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

i know a woman, became a wife .

these are the very words she uses to describe her life .

she said a good day, ain't got no rain .

Curtains

nickolas, I stay because in our relationship we are working toward respecting each other's separatness.

labmik you raise some interesting issues that mixed marriages would have to face - a chief one being as you point out that "If its the man who is the JW he may loose his prominanace in the congregation as well" . This was a huge issue for me but nowadays I think of it as that all of us have at some time to face our vulnerabilites and when we do we are truly living.

As to co-dependency - this is a valid thought. Mind you my husband and I have become more independent as a result of holding different opinions.

as to alcohol addiction - I would definitely leave if my husband became addicted to alcohol and if he did not seek help that enabled him to stop being addicted. I simply would not tolerate having to put up with my children tiptoeing around him. So yes if my husband became so wrapped up in his jw beliefs that he completely lost his ability to reason and became very very self centered and destructive as one would if one became an alcoholic - I would definitely consider leaving him.

Being in a dysfunctional relationship soley for the kids is tanatmount to martomdom and suffering of personal abuse of one's self.

If your not happy, I can't see that the rest of the family would be happy, as feelings can be contagious.

I think this would need to be evaluated as I believe that some unhappiness is good for the soul - it means we are human. But I think it is important to assess whether or not the unhappiness is causing actual irrevocable harm. In my family there are tensions and there is suffering I guess but these are not damaging to that extent imo.

thank you labmik for raising these issues.

26

The Watchtower Proselytizer's road to hell

by Nickolas in

there is an old proverb that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

take heed.. how many people have you harmed in your life, even when you didn't intend to?.

former witnesses on this board have expressed regret and shame for having gone door to door luring people into the watchtower.

Curtains

in hindsight I wasn't luring I was networking. I'm still networking and hope that the people I networked with as a JW are themselves doing the same. No shame, no sense of responsibility here - my heart is clean

edit: however I do wish I hadn't witnessed to my children

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

psac

Christianity spread because it WORKED for its believers and it was NOT a threat to the existing empire.

my own reading tells me that there were negotiations on both sides amidst much turbulence. Indeed christianity was not for the fainthearted and it doesn't appear to be so on this board either

terry pls see my post above -451

17

crazy jw ex wife shoots herself in the foot, again

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

you would think she would learn.. but being the vindictive bitter woman she has alowed herself to become, i guess she can't.. last time she threatened me with less visitation and told me to get a lawyer, she lost big time and had to concede much compared to what she wanted to take away.. this time she 'dobs' me into the child support angency for being in arrears and not paying the correct amount.

both not true as i have signed delivery of all payments and i actually pay her a little more than i have to.

but the foot shooting is that by making a request to the csa to collect the money from now on, they have to review the case and based on the more time my daughter gets since april last year they say they will reduce the amount... on top of that i can have my sons case closed now as he is fulltime employed which would futher reduce the amount i pay.

Curtains

perhpas she wants more child support because she is trying to pioneer

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

hey psac and midgetsasquatch - I'm not denying that women played a part in the growth of chrisitianity but there are so many other factors that when taken together the part women played is quite small and not like how terry suggests in his polemic against men and women.

How christianity spread is very complicated - but some of the main reasons are that

they actively preached

they offered new understandings regarding sacrifice, text and morality focused chiefly on Jesus.

heavenly destiny was emphasized

from the 3rd century every chrisitan assembly demanded the presence of a bishop indicating that a heiarchy had been established by then

christians developed a new moral theory and much of this was based on stoic traditions. Shepherd, 2nd cent CE, Sentences of sextus and the pedagogue of Alexandria - c150-2150

A personal theory though is that slaves had multiplied astronomically in the Roman empire (indeed Roman politicians became quite fearful of how fast slaves bred and how much the rich were encouraging them to breed). When rome began freeing its slaves I wonder if many turned to budding christianity. Many slaves were educacted in Greek and Roman philosophy, some had been teachers within elite households. I wonder what impact they had on the growth of christianity. Stoicism had begun to emphasize inner character and humanitariansim as being all important and not status and wealth (resonating with early christian thought). Other Hellenic philosophies interacted with jewish traditions too plus Roman religion had a part to play as well - a resonant bright fresh new worldview emerged. Mind you if I ever have to write a thesis I would choose this as my subject - the impact of slaves and freedmen on the growth of christianity.

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

mind you I still don't agree with Starks idea that women played a major role in the spread of chrisitianity

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

Terry thanks for telling us your source - The rise of christianity by Rodney Stark

I understand you better and this as well because I've just started delving into a book recommended for further reading by the course I am doing - Martha c. Nussbaum's The Therapy of Desire which is based on theory and practice in Hellenistc ethics. Emotion is at the top of the list of debates. Have you read this book by any chance? It resonates with quite a few of your topics.

108

The secret of how Christianity spread across the world

by Terry in

what i am going to say may sound nasty and mean-spirited.

i assure you it is not intended in that tone.. men are power seekers and control freaks.

without using women as drones to do the grunt work of religion.

Curtains

maksym

Is this just your opinion? Can you quote sources? This sounds just like another emotional diatribe from an ex cult member. I am a student of historical Christianity. You are completey off-base. Biased in my opinion in every respect.

If you want to have any weight in that statement quote your sources otherwise it is just words.

this is what I have been asking Terry. But as his assertions are so colourful and inflammatory they are very entertaining. He is a great voice for xjws and I always pay attention to him except when he makes mysognistic assertions.