as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.
i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.
so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.
jhine: I hope that your application goes well . Is the trip for work or a holiday ?
Thank u. I don't think there's any complications with the visa, after all this is my 12th trip since 2001. but these days, there's so many people going to China, that there are usually large queues. Not so bad yesterday, as Sydney was deluged with a cyclone.
My reason for visiting is out of interest, "How did the Chinese people manage to go from 3rd world to 1st world in 35 years?"
the new historians take on the subject:.
http://www.newhistorian.com/the-start-of-the-tiananmen-square-protest/3561/.
The New Historians take on the subject:
http://www.newhistorian.com/the-start-of-the-tiananmen-square-protest/3561/
long story short my mom was acting weird, snubbing me, when i tried bringing her grandkids to see her, so i tried again and this time i just went up and hugged her since she wouldn't hug me or acknowledge any affection.
when i released her i immediately saw her annoyed look and asked what?
bang, she unleashes a floodgate of how she's still mad at me for going to another church that believes the trinity.
I suggest your mother is referring to Psalm 82. likely verse 6, quoting:
1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?[b]
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
And at this Blueletter Bible page, you can find Strong's discussion of the usage.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=H430&t=KJV
Village Idiot20 minutes agoMorpheus, "Part of chinas violent present"
And what relevance does that have for this thread?
It's not particularly relevant, VI, as you say - but I do not mind that Morpheus says it. But I do mind, that he did not bother to read it properly. The particular publication, applied the whole 200 million claimed abortions on China, whereas the article was talking about the whole world.
I quote a section from Morpeus's cited article:
The United Nations estimates that about 200 million girls are missing from the world due to this rampant genocide – now commonly called “gendercide.”
Misquoting (whether intentionally of carelessly), is not a particularly good way to conduct an argument, is it?
"Gendercide," as Morpheus' article named the practise, has indeed been a problem in China, and to an extent still is. For those to whom the one-child policy applied, the clear preference was to have a son. It was a common practise for many, to go to an ultra-sound clinic to identify the sex of the foetus, and to abort females. The use of ultra sound technology for that purpose is now banned in China.
The same problem exists in India and other places in the world, and is certainly complicated by the issues surrounding abortion in the west.
So a calm cool examination of the problem leads our thoughts in other directions to the "China bad, America good" narrative that Morpheus tapped into.
you'll probably have to click to start, qq is not linked as youtube is.
and there is an advertisement at the beginning.. the setting is the university's cafeteria.. the university could be qinghai university in xining, the capital of qinghai province, which is mainly tibetan and mongolian.
the song itself is a cover of a hit called, love you, by a hongkong group named, beyond.. i think i have all that correct.. http://v.qq.com/cover/k/k2ji773zcyf8x11.html?vid=h0149dikkob.
you'll probably have to click to start, QQ is not linked as Youtube is. And there is an advertisement at the beginning.
The setting is the university's cafeteria.
The University could be Qinghai University in Xining, the capital of Qinghai Province, which is mainly Tibetan and Mongolian.
The song itself is a cover of a hit called, Love You, by a Hongkong group named, Beyond.
I think I have all that correct.
http://v.qq.com/cover/k/k2ji773zcyf8x11.html?vid=h0149dikkob
i am a member on new testament scholar bart ehrman's blog, and the professor is currently outlining a new book he is writing about false memory and the life of jesus.. an interesting post occurred today in which he gives an example of a very famous scripture,.
example of a false memory of jesus teaching i turn to a famous passage in the gospel of john, jesus dialogue with nicodemus (john 3:1-15).
nicodemus is said to be a jewish leader who comes up to jesus and affirms that jesus must come from god because of the great things that he said to have done.
Thnx for posting that viewpoint.
Another perspective, that I use form time to time, is that we all live our lives in a storied framework of our own writing. The gospel writers published their stories of Jesus (whether it was an historical Jesus or mythical Jesus does not really matter).
Does anyone here, really remember, word for word, the Public Talk at your first ever big convention? So how could anyone recall exactly what Jesus said, some 30 years + later?
my wife is a jw, and is teaching our eight year old daughter jw beliefs.
i am trying to teach her about evolution and critical thinking skills.
here is a conversation we had today (as best i can remember it):daughter: "why do bad things happen?
Good enough, or not good enough, is of no importance. Your daughter is on her own road, she has to travel it for herself, enjoying some beautiful things and weeping over the inevitable tragedies.
All we can do as parents is to attempt to outfit them with the best strategies - and I would assess your effort as helpful to her emotional and intellectural growth. But time will tell.
as jehovah's witnesses we committed ourselves to a blind belief in a monotheistic judaism that was automatically transmitted to a new religious organisation, started (we were taught) by jesus.. that's the premise which this thread will discuss.
i suggest that sufficient evidence is available to throw doubt on both those beliefs.
so this thread will argue (over about a week-hopefully) that:.
jhine6 hours ago
fulltime , sorry if I misrepresented you in any way .I was just trying to point out to TTTE ( who I am not sure is still with us , on the thread I mean ) that exchange of ideas is a healthy thing .
You are right about Ignatius of course and it might be him who says that this teaching came down from the Apostles as he was so close to John . This is obviously why the WT resorts to misquoting the Early Church Fathers in their literature ..
Jan, I hadn't seen myself misrepresented, so that's OK!
If you have not yet found the site, a site called 'Early Christian Writers" provides an opportunity to read what they wrote. (link: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ ).
These writers 'flesh' out what other 'Christians' were thinking/believing after the Apostles were dead. Sad, that we know so little about those of the 12 who are 'disappeared' by the well-known names. A good collection of these writings can be found in Bart Ehrman's, 'After the New Testament- A Reader in Early Christianity.' It just may be in your local library.
Ignatius, is most famous, for his peddling a church structure controlled by the Bishop (who must be obeyed), assisted by Elders and Deacons. My previous Ignatius quote (provided courtesy of Vermes) came from Iggies, "Letter to the Romans." Ch.3. verse, 3. It says in full,
"Nothing you can see has a real value. Our God Jesus Christ, indeed, has revealed himself more clearly by returning to the family. The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated by the world, not in its being convincing to it."
Here's old Iggie being eaten by lions, a little after writing the above. The lions, of course, (grin) have no real value. Though, I guess the lions thought a mouthful of Iggie was real value.
The painting is from from the Menologion of Basil II (c. 1000 AD)
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There are some interesting quotes, about "god" that I've culled from Verme's book. Cant spend time to post them right now, I must submit a visa application this morning, for a planned trip to southern China, next month.
i can't get over how many "try-harders" are going on "holidays" to countries that are under govt ban!.
they get tourist visas to get into the countries (such as parts of asia) but are really there to preach.... .
how dishonest!.
hahaI I wonder how many are game to try North Korea??? In fact, I dare them, surely Yahweh/Jesus will protect them - (another grin)
As far as China goes, there are many people and many religions doing the same thing. Its evidence, not of spiritual bravery, but a sign of obsession. Contrary to what many think, Christianity is not banned in China. The government wants all religions to be registered and if they do not register, they could be in some trouble. If you go to Wenzhou, you'll see buildings with crosses on all over the city. Some of these churches are 300+ years old (established by Dominican Catholic Missionaries).
