Posts by InterestedOne

39

Is it normal to quote without naming the source like WT does?

by InterestedOne in

i am noticing here and there that the wt literature will say things like "one bible dictionary says ..." or "one scholar says ..." and then proceed with a quotation.

my immediate reaction is to ask myself why they didn't provide the specific source of the quote - author, publication, page #, etc.

so i am wondering, do other magazines do this?

InterestedOne

Although, as I am writing, I do remember in the begining of the Babylon book, the section about how Nimrod, and Marduk and the cross were all related that they quoted generously bible scholars by name.

I have seen them provide varying degrees of source information. Sometimes it is just the name. Sometimes it is the name and the title. Even sometimes, they give a full reference with page #'s. However, it seems very selective to me. Sometimes it's just "one writer says ..." and other times it is a full reference. I don't understand why they don't provide the full reference every time. Afterall, they refer to their magazine as a "journal." As for the "popular magazines" argument, I am trying to think off the top of my head if I have ever seen even a popular magazine provide a quote attributed to "one writer" or "one famous thinker" etc. Then again, I haven't read a popular magazine in a long time. I was just curious if the WT writers & readers actually think their quoting style is normal.

38

Unbelieveable Bethel Talk-'Are you being brainwashed?'

by Joliette in

...cause surely, friends, were not brainwashing you!.

http://www.jwbrothers.org/play_audio.php?audio=1124&/.

InterestedOne

I think this might be called immunization. As people read up on the subject of brainwashing, a cult can use the word in the opposite way to reassure the followers that they can -avoid- being brainwashed by staying in the cult.

10

anti witnessing with my apostate brother

by JunkYardDog in

jw
friends

we go to the local diner and there are about a dozen or so jw there.

my brother picks a table right next to them and we just went off talking loud about one false wt teaching after an other.

keep in mind these jw know us.

InterestedOne

I wonder what would happen if you tagged along as they go house to house.

23

Motives Behind JW Lies

by Deeraq in

i know that in religions, they do what they do because it is about politics and money.

those are the motives behind why religions are the way they are and do what they do.

but can someone tell me what would be the motive(s) of jw's lieing and controling their participants (for lack of a better word)?

InterestedOne

In a casual discussion with a friend, he mentioned the idea that McDonald's is actually in the real estate business. There have been other threads on here about how the arrangement works with each congregation being independent yet in the paperwork for the KH's, if the cong is dissolved, the WT gets the KH. I imagine there are contractors/vendors/lawyers/etc. who benefit from any large organization like the WT. Here are a couple of threads asking similar questions to yours.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/203322/1/What-is-the-WTs-Motivation-Who-Benefits

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/203018/1/Who-Owns-Kingdom-Halls-Land

72

How were Rutherford's Cadillacs purchased?

by InterestedOne in

i mentioned rutherford's cadillacs to my study conductor, and he said maybe rutherford was able to purchase them because he was independently wealthy.

were they purchased from his own personal wealth or with the wt funds?.

InterestedOne

Actually, Farkel, if you have a moment, I would be happy to read your writings on the subject if you can PM me the links.

72

How were Rutherford's Cadillacs purchased?

by InterestedOne in

i mentioned rutherford's cadillacs to my study conductor, and he said maybe rutherford was able to purchase them because he was independently wealthy.

were they purchased from his own personal wealth or with the wt funds?.

InterestedOne

Thank you Farkel. I appreciate the information.

72

How were Rutherford's Cadillacs purchased?

by InterestedOne in

i mentioned rutherford's cadillacs to my study conductor, and he said maybe rutherford was able to purchase them because he was independently wealthy.

were they purchased from his own personal wealth or with the wt funds?.

InterestedOne

djeggnog - I started this thread to ask the question in the title. It had nothing to do with 1914. The discussion started to drift into the idea of nit-picking and how it affects communication with JW's. I only mentioned 1914 as an example of an important doctrinal issue as compared with other miscellaneous issues like what cars Rutherford had - which some might consider nit-picking. I have learned that if I nit-pick with my study conductor, it hampers clear-headed communication between us on doctrinal issues.

You are correct that I didn't ask my study conductor to read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered." I didn't ask him because I know him well enough after over 6 months of interaction that he would not read it and would perceive it as a threat. I wish he would read it so we could be on the same page. I have been more than willing to read all the WT information he has presented to me. However, he is not willing to reciprocate by reading the information I present to him. That is the nature of the relationship between him and me.

As for my relationship with you, I never asked to debate you on any subject. You originally brought up the notion of debating 1914 with me. Regarding that notion, I simply let you know I am reading a book by someone I consider to be a very good author on the matter. Then I said, after you read the book, perhaps you can share your comments on it on another thread. I am not skilled or knowledgable enough about the topic to debate anyone on it. I am currently reading up on it - reading WT as well as non-WT literature. That's all. I'm taking in information.

Thank you for your kind offer to allow me to not discuss 1914 with you. I have no desire to discuss it with you.

As for the thread dying, it was not about 1914. It was asking a question about how Rutherford's Cadillacs were purchased. I hope it continues with anyone contributing information on-topic. bttt please.

72

How were Rutherford's Cadillacs purchased?

by InterestedOne in

i mentioned rutherford's cadillacs to my study conductor, and he said maybe rutherford was able to purchase them because he was independently wealthy.

were they purchased from his own personal wealth or with the wt funds?.

InterestedOne

djeggnog - As for debating 1914, I am currently reading "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" by Carl Olof Jonson. After you have read it, perhaps you can share your comments on it on a separate thread. This one is about Cadillacs & drifted slightly into nit-picking.

32

Questions to ask from Bible Teach Ch 8

by InterestedOne in

i'm going to my jw "bible" study tonight.

we are on chapter 8 and will pick up at par 15. any suggestions for questions to ask?.

InterestedOne

Hi Sherah - If I say his evidence is not enough, I could see him saying, "what don't you understand about it?" and we'd be stuck in an argument about how to interpret the 70-years verses & whether or not they are inconclusive. I have had this problem before where an interpretation of a verse is inconclusive to me, but to the JW the interpretation is "obviously" the WT interpretation and I'm just being a "debater."

To make matters worse, in the "The Gentile Times Reconsidered," the author shows how the WT has provided a response to some of the historical evidence but leaves out important information, and the information they do provide is presented in a misleading way. Basically, they make it sound like the evidence is open to debate, when it really isn't. Like the Proclaimers book, it is an example of "immunization" using only -some- of the information to give loyal JW's a feeling that they have done their homework. If my conductor comes back with the WT pseudo-response to the evidence, it will put me in the position of having to "teach" him by providing additional information, which then causes another wall to go up in his mind. I'm not sure how make him aware of the additional information without appearing like I'm "teaching" him.

Perhaps I'm being overly worried & might just have to play this by ear, trying to stick to the evidence.

72

How were Rutherford's Cadillacs purchased?

by InterestedOne in

i mentioned rutherford's cadillacs to my study conductor, and he said maybe rutherford was able to purchase them because he was independently wealthy.

were they purchased from his own personal wealth or with the wt funds?.

InterestedOne

Hey Lady Lee - Thank you for all your help BTW. Black Sheep has been giving me advice on how to deal with the skewed perceptions that some fiercely loyal JW's have. I understood his comment to mean the JW will -perceive- it as nit-picking and put up a wall. I agree with you that the Cadillacs are another example of hypocrisy and important to be aware of. At the same time, as an outsider, I have found that my JW conductor is quick to put up a wall when I mention the shortcomings of the WT leaders. He threatened to end the study a while back when I kept bringing up the various problems. He called me a "debater." I could walk away, but I am choosing to continue the study to try to get the picture of the culture my JW friend is wrapped up in. Along the way, if I can put my conductor in a position where he has to be honest with himself about things like 1914, I'm willing to forego telling him about the other miscellaneous problems that I keep discovering. Maybe he'll wake up and the floodgates can be opened.