Posts by InterestedOne

46

Watchtowers Judicial System

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtowers judicial system .

today i uploaded a new article to my blog addressing a central aspect of judicial process and how its lack in watchtowers system undermines justice and confidence, not to mention undermining the honesty of watchtowers presentation of its system.

the article is titled watchtowers judicial system and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtowers-judicial-system.html.

InterestedOne

Maybe I'm just slow, but if they DF you for something petty, like sleeping over someone's house once, I thought the idea is that you can always talk to the elders, and if you explain that you will try to never do it again, show a strong desire to be "one of Jehovah's Witnesses TM ," and demonstrate that you are willing to follow their code of conduct, you can be reinstated. Maybe I'm just clueless as an outsider, but I would think, for someone that actually wanted to be in the cult, this would be easy. In the example of sleeping over someone's house, I would think you could say, "oh I'm sorry, I realize how that could give a bad impression & bring reproach on Jehovah's name, blah blah. Please, brother AlphaMale, adjust my thinking, and I promise never to do something like that again. I will do whatever little book study you recommend to help me." My study conductor explained that people who remain DF'd are people who don't want to follow the org code of conduct anyway. If they showed a desire to conform their lives to it, they would be welcomed back. Sorry if I'm sounding thick-headed here.

Would you say one of the main problems is that the elders can always refuse to allow the black-balled person back by prolonging the reinstatement process indefinitely? I could see how this could become corrupt if the elders don't like the person because, as Marvin's article pointed out, their decisions are made in secret. Am I correct that someone who wants to be in the cult could be denied at the whim of the elders even if that person was showing all the signs of proper cult behavior and attitude?

84

In general, what is the ethically correct response if a minor tells you someone is molesting him/her?

by InterestedOne in

i was thinking about what the elders are trained to do versus what i personally would do if a minor confided in me that someone was molesting him/her.

i'm not sure what the ethically correct first response should be.

my first thought is to contact some kind of law enforcement that specializes in investigating situations like this with people experienced in getting to the truth of the matter.

InterestedOne

Lady Lee - I see. I'm glad to hear that elders, because they want clergy privilege, will abide by the law that goes along with that privilege. I'm also glad that certain countries have such laws in place. I guess the elders do what the WT legal dept advises them based on the laws in their area. That makes sense. I would hope, if there are no laws in their area that require reporting, that the elder isn't being taught, even indirectly through some element of doctrine, not to report, like for some religious "us & them" reason. I sincerely hope there is no element of JW doctrine that would lead an elder to conclude that he should not report out of loyalty or something.

84

In general, what is the ethically correct response if a minor tells you someone is molesting him/her?

by InterestedOne in

i was thinking about what the elders are trained to do versus what i personally would do if a minor confided in me that someone was molesting him/her.

i'm not sure what the ethically correct first response should be.

my first thought is to contact some kind of law enforcement that specializes in investigating situations like this with people experienced in getting to the truth of the matter.

InterestedOne

Do the elders or other WT representatives ever take it upon themselves to call Child Protective Services?

84

In general, what is the ethically correct response if a minor tells you someone is molesting him/her?

by InterestedOne in

i was thinking about what the elders are trained to do versus what i personally would do if a minor confided in me that someone was molesting him/her.

i'm not sure what the ethically correct first response should be.

my first thought is to contact some kind of law enforcement that specializes in investigating situations like this with people experienced in getting to the truth of the matter.

InterestedOne

I was thinking about what the elders are trained to do versus what I personally would do if a minor confided in me that someone was molesting him/her. I'm not sure what the ethically correct first response should be. My first thought is to contact some kind of law enforcement that specializes in investigating situations like this with people experienced in getting to the truth of the matter. Does it make sense to contact the police immediately, i.e. analogous to a "Monopoly" game "do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go to -directly- to..." in this case the police? I imagine some would say to speak with the "accused" person first, but I just wonder if that would be futile, exhausting, complicated, etc. if you're not experienced in dealing with that kind of person.

If I understand the elders' training correctly, they say something like, "if the individual making the accusation wishes to go to the police, it is certainly his/her right to do so." Duh, of course it is that child's "right" to do so, but I'm talking about -you-, Mr. elder, what are -you- going to do about it? And, how does that compare with what someone -ought- to do?

Do elders ever take it upon themselves to go straight to the police? I recall reading in the Flock book that they are trained to immediately call the WT legal department. Ok, fair enough, but still, do any WT representatives, whether elders or legal dept people, ever contact the police to investigate, or do they always attempt to handle the matter internally? Do they feel there is no need to involve "Caesar's" police? Or, are there times when the WT humbly acknowledges that they better call the police for the protection of the child because the elders, etc. are not really qualified to handle the matter?

46

Watchtowers Judicial System

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtowers judicial system .

today i uploaded a new article to my blog addressing a central aspect of judicial process and how its lack in watchtowers system undermines justice and confidence, not to mention undermining the honesty of watchtowers presentation of its system.

the article is titled watchtowers judicial system and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtowers-judicial-system.html.

InterestedOne

JW GoneBad - Good point. The JW judicial system looks like a recipe for wreaking havoc in people's lives. A potential convert should ask him/herself, "do I want to become part of an organization with a judicial system like that?"

63

How Many of Them Do You Know About?

by clarity in

after flipper's thread about the wt child abuse cases, i started to think about how many children i know of personally who have been sexually abused by a jw!.

as someone who is not especially 'in the know', it's amazing that i do know five of them.

one who was a small baby, at the time!.

InterestedOne

Clarity, I just wanted to do a math check. If each JW knows of 1 molestation, I don't think it necessarily would equate to 7 million kids because 2 JW's might know of the same child. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would mean 7 million kids only if each JW knows of a different kid.

46

Watchtowers Judicial System

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtowers judicial system .

today i uploaded a new article to my blog addressing a central aspect of judicial process and how its lack in watchtowers system undermines justice and confidence, not to mention undermining the honesty of watchtowers presentation of its system.

the article is titled watchtowers judicial system and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtowers-judicial-system.html.

InterestedOne

MS - Thanks for checking if I've seen it. I did find it online. However, I haven't done a side-by-side comparison between it & the other WT lit such as the OD book to see if the claim the JW's make: that the WT provides enough information for a potential convert to make an informed decision without seeing the confidential material such as the Flock book, is true. From what I read here, it looks like another falsehood.

46

Watchtowers Judicial System

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

watchtowers judicial system .

today i uploaded a new article to my blog addressing a central aspect of judicial process and how its lack in watchtowers system undermines justice and confidence, not to mention undermining the honesty of watchtowers presentation of its system.

the article is titled watchtowers judicial system and is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtowers-judicial-system.html.

InterestedOne

leavingwt - Wow. A few things are starting to hit home with me on this.

(1) It looks like when a person gets baptized, he/she is giving the elders blanket authority (like you said "anything" 3 elders agree on) to decide what his/her standing is in the congregation, but he/she is not provided access to the information (such as the Shepherd book) explaining how the elders make their decisions.

(2) Apart from the fact that the baptism candidate can't read the elder's rulebook to check what they are getting into, which is bad enough, I would like to know if the elders check to make sure the baptism candidate understands the blanket authority he/she is giving these men. If they say yes they do check, I would ask how exactly do they make sure the person clearly understands the commitment of submission they are about to make.

(3) I think the elder was lying to me (or possibly out of touch with reality) when I asked him about the confidential Shepherd book. He said that a baptism candidate will learn everything that is in that book by reading the other WT literature, books, etc. and hearing what is said from the platform. Of course I asked, "then what's the problem with someone just reading your book if it's all the same information?" He said that's just the organization's policy, but he can assure me there is nothing in that book that a person won't hear at the meetings or read in the literature.

3

PDF Request please - Aid to Bible Understanding

by naeuca in

would anyone happen to have a copy of the aid to bible understanding that they can send me in pdf version.

there was an earlier post that had the link but unfortunately i was unable to open the link.. .

many thanks in advance.. natalie.

InterestedOne

trevorbv, i'd like one too if you get a chance.

25

Why can't anyone just simply tell me who writes the watchtowers or the publications for that matter??...(please read)

by Joliette in

jw
friends

got into a discussion with my mom after a sister (that lives down the street from me) went back and told her some things that i said.

after me and mom got done having a deep discussion on the phone, i asked my mom a simple questions: who writes the watchtowers?

i've been going to the hall since i was three, and i have yet to have this questions answered.

InterestedOne

Given the info from Lady Lee & Yknot, I can see how my logic on humbleness does not stand up. The lack of names doesn't necessarily have to do with being humble or not. The writing could be considered a group effort. Still, when an article has multiple authors, I like to see the authors, like in scholarly journals. At the same time, in this case, as Lady Lee said, the "author" is the company itself because it represents the view of the company.