Posts by InterestedOne

40

Any JW, please help- I need just one thing!

by moshe in

jw
friends

--the name of a real live (not dead) member of the faithful and discreet slave class- someone who has admitted in public they are one of the f&ds and who can verify they have been providing the "meat in due season" for the governing body.

obviously the gb can't be the f&ds, because they are neither discreet nor do they have a position of servitude- no, they have made it plain they are the bosses over jws and jws have to obey their words, as if jehovah and jesus were speaking them, or else they will get the disfellowshiped.

just one verifiable name will do and how you obtained it.. the governing body claims that the f&ds are directing them and the worldwide work of jws, but they have never proven that they have a f&ds class they communicate with- just have one of the annointed call bethel and ask to speak to one of the gb and see what the switchboard operator does with their call.

InterestedOne

Moshe, I'm still confused by your reasoning in the following interchange:

ResistanceIsFutile wrote:

I thought the members of the Governing Body are considered to be part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

To which you responded:

Well if they are, then they are self-directed bosses and that is not how it is supposed to work- in theory.

I would think a JW would simply say they believe GB are not self-directed as you say. Rather, they believe the GB are directed by Jesus. There was a WT article a few months back entitled "Your Leader is One, the Christ," that said following the GB is the same as following Christ because the GB are directed by Christ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think if you ask a JW for names of some members of the FDS class, they could just give you the names of some GB members and say these men are part of the "faithful and discreet slave," and their "master" is Jesus, so they are not self-directed. What am I missing here?

Also, when I asked the CO about all the other people in JW-land who claim to be anointed, and why aren't they part of the formulation of doctrine and decision-making, etc., he said that even in the 1st century, not all anointed Christians were called by Jehovah to have the duty of teaching. He gave the example of Phillip, whom Jehovah gave the duty of caring for widows and orphans. His point was that the various members of the FDS have different roles in administering food at the proper time, and only a few of them, being the GB, have been called by Jehovah to the specific role of "taking the lead" in teaching and supervising the entire organization.

Not that I personally believe any of it, but I was just thinking that a JW should have no difficulty in answering your question. Where do you see any logical flaw in the way I explained my understanding of the JW FDS idea? Couldn't they just satisfy your request for at least one name by naming one of those weirdos like Gerrit Losch or David Splane and be done with the matter?

11

Watchtower Doctrine: Makes perfect sense, as long as you don't think about it.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

my background, i've never been a jw.

i've got extended family in the religion.

i'm in the middle of a bible watchtower publication study with one of them who thinks i'm interested in joining the religion.

InterestedOne

My guess is that if you asked the two questions raised here: (1) what was Jesus doing from 33 CE to 1914? and (2) What has he been doing since 1914?

to your study conductor, he/she would probably say to (1) that we can't say for sure what Jesus was doing all that time, and (2) since 1914 Jesus has been "directing" the preaching activity of Jehovah's Witnesses TM . I asked my study conductor how Jesus "directs" the preaching work, like do the Governing Body members hear an audible voice? He said the Governing Body members read the Bible, and Jesus "directs" their understanding of it & their decision-making through something called "holy spirit" which is, like Jesus return and inspection in 1914, invisible.

11

Watchtower Doctrine: Makes perfect sense, as long as you don't think about it.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

my background, i've never been a jw.

i've got extended family in the religion.

i'm in the middle of a bible watchtower publication study with one of them who thinks i'm interested in joining the religion.

InterestedOne

In the Bible Teach book, check pages 84-85, paragraphs 22-23 of ch 8 to see part of their 1914 teaching. In particular, note the following sentence from paragraph 23:

The fulfillment of Bible prophecy shows that in 1914, Christ became King and God's heavenly Kingdom began to rule.

They say he was already in heaven since his ascension back in 33 CE, but he was waiting all this time to become "King" of "God's Kingdom" whatever any of that is supposed to mean.

11

Watchtower Doctrine: Makes perfect sense, as long as you don't think about it.

by Resistance is Futile in

jw
friends

my background, i've never been a jw.

i've got extended family in the religion.

i'm in the middle of a bible watchtower publication study with one of them who thinks i'm interested in joining the religion.

InterestedOne

RIF wrote:

How the hell did Jesus return to Heaven in 1914 if he was already there to began with?

Where did you get the idea that Jesus returned to heaven in 1914?

40

Any JW, please help- I need just one thing!

by moshe in

jw
friends

--the name of a real live (not dead) member of the faithful and discreet slave class- someone who has admitted in public they are one of the f&ds and who can verify they have been providing the "meat in due season" for the governing body.

obviously the gb can't be the f&ds, because they are neither discreet nor do they have a position of servitude- no, they have made it plain they are the bosses over jws and jws have to obey their words, as if jehovah and jesus were speaking them, or else they will get the disfellowshiped.

just one verifiable name will do and how you obtained it.. the governing body claims that the f&ds are directing them and the worldwide work of jws, but they have never proven that they have a f&ds class they communicate with- just have one of the annointed call bethel and ask to speak to one of the gb and see what the switchboard operator does with their call.

InterestedOne

I get the impression from the JW's I have spoken with that they use "Faithful & Discreet Slave" interchangeably with "anointed" still on earth or "partaker." When I asked the CO if I could speak with a member of the "Faithful & Discreet Slave," he said I could go find a congregration with someone who partakes and talk to that person. He seemed to be using the terms interchangeably. I specifically asked if, for example, David Splane claims to be a member of the FDS. The CO said that, although Mr. Splane doesn't introduce himself using that term, every year when Mr. Splane "partakes," he is in effect saying that he is a member of the FDS. Am I missing something here? Is there some technical difference between partaking and claiming to be a member of the FDS?

132

Hello

by Chariklo in

i am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.

i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.

i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.

InterestedOne

Chariklo - I like your analogy with smoking. I've found for myself that religious stuff can be an addictive habit. Even if I let go of it because I know my attention should be directed more productively, I find it has gotten deep inside me so that my mind keeps reverting back to it - like you said with an automatic justification for doing so. Lately, I've been testing what it might feel like to just skip the god stuff. Yesterday, I tried just looking up at the clouds and not presupposing some sort of god. It felt good.

34

What they DON'T tell you

by Black Man in

jw
friends

hey everybody, i'm in the middle of an ongoing debate w/some jws and they are asserting that everyone knows what they're getting into when they are studying and getting baptized and that nobody forces anyone to become a jw and that you can leave anytime you want.

ok, we know that's not true.

how would you counter that argument?

InterestedOne

Do they tell a new recruit about the s-77 and s-79 forms? Consider what Marvin Shilmer points out (http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/05/s-77-and-s-79-disfellowshipping-and.html):

With these forms any illusion of clergy-penitent confidential communication evaporates because these forms are precisely for the purpose of disclosing these communications to a third-party—the Watchtower organization—and doing so without informing the penitent, who has every reason to think their communication is shared within the strict confidence of themselves and those present for any confession.

Also consider his comment on the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/210132/1/S-77-and-S-79-Disfellowshipping-and-Disassociation-forms regarding a California ruling:

I have added images of a court ruling from California determining that the penitential communication privilege does not exist for Watchtower style judicial hearings because what is learned in these hearings is required to be communicated to Watchtower headquarters. The S-77 and S-79 forms are part of that communication.

8

Nut Art

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

here and there i've run across a couple articles that refer to wt art as "nut art.

" however, when i do a google search for this term, i mainly find websites about art literally made with nuts, like pistachios, etc.

is there actually a genre of art called "nut art," and are there any websites that discuss it and provide examples of non-wt as well as wt?

InterestedOne

CoCo - Thanks for the link. Do you think it is just a term that Bruce Lewis, the author of that post, made up for his own collection, or have you heard the term used elsewhere?

8

Nut Art

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

here and there i've run across a couple articles that refer to wt art as "nut art.

" however, when i do a google search for this term, i mainly find websites about art literally made with nuts, like pistachios, etc.

is there actually a genre of art called "nut art," and are there any websites that discuss it and provide examples of non-wt as well as wt?

InterestedOne

LG - It's not that I'm specifically looking for nutty WT pictures, although examples are certainly relevant to my question. Also, I'm not really looking for that conspiracy stuff either. I was wondering, among people who are into art, if there is a genre called "nut art," and was curious to see WT alongside other art that falls under that category, if it exists, as well as a possible discussion of it as a genre.

8

Nut Art

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

here and there i've run across a couple articles that refer to wt art as "nut art.

" however, when i do a google search for this term, i mainly find websites about art literally made with nuts, like pistachios, etc.

is there actually a genre of art called "nut art," and are there any websites that discuss it and provide examples of non-wt as well as wt?

InterestedOne

Here and there I've run across a couple articles that refer to WT art as "nut art." However, when I do a google search for this term, I mainly find websites about art literally made with nuts, like pistachios, etc. Is there actually a genre of art called "nut art," and are there any websites that discuss it and provide examples of non-WT as well as WT? If there are no websites about it, and if such a genre exists, I welcome any further information on it.