Well, E-man. Personally I wouldn't DREAM OF visiting a bar or a pub I couldn't smoke.
Simple as that.
Posts by Kent
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16Cough Cough, Splutter Choke, Gruuugh Bleah!
by Englishman inhow do you feel about people who smoke in public places such as bars and restaurants?
if i complain about smokers in my pub, they say: "it's a pub, what do you expect?".
i can't see the reasoning here.
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WTBTS still listed on the UN server!
by Kent inhttp://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/ngodir/ngodirsubj/sub0d9a2.htm .
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?nocache=1&dato=20011104&kategori=news&lopenr=111040001&ref=ar
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17
How Do We Respond to the WTS on the UN?
by hawkaw inoh hello, just little old me.. i want to talk about and ask a question about the watchtower's "spin" in the un fiascao.. based on my review of the case, there are 2 "spins" that need to be "counterspinned".. these wts "spins" that deserve responses are:.
1) the watchtower did not keep this un "association" a secret and the leaders were not hiding anything.. 2) the watchtower used this "association" to help promote its educational and voluntary work through out the world.
we only considered the support of the un charter in help our brothers get their religious freedom.
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Kent
The Watchtower do have a huge problem with either "spin". I made a search on the Watchtower 99 CD, and "AidAfrique" - which is (one of) an organization, a NGO used by the Watchtower. Not mentioned with one word.
The only mentioning of aid work is more or less in the yearbooks. Their connection to the UN is NOT mentioned anywhere in the literature, and was completely unknown to all JWs.
The fact they ran like hell as soon as Guardian printed their article shows they didn't feel good about this at all - and no excuses are good enough.
This is a no win situation for them. They can claim they have done some good, but they have done so by violating their own rules. They can say this is not political, but no JW will really buy that - even though they will pretend they do.
So, I think the latest article by our friend from The Guardian pretty much sums it all up! A fantastic article! Thanks for telling about it - it's naturally on the Watchtower Observers first page :))
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16
Looking for an Awake article
by Tina insome time ago there was an awake article about humanitarian aid in africa.
i remember making a post after reading it.
i can't locate the mag.
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Kent
Unfortunately my CD only includes up to 1999 :(
But, I hope someone can scan that article and send it to me!
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Was Adam black?
by nicolaou inokay, it's an old question but we haven't examined it here yet so let's have your thoughts.. adam was the progenitor of the whole human race, from his genes sprang the negroid, caucasian, mongoloid, indo-european and every other race on the planet.. the hebrew people were not selected as jehovah's chosen nation until abram had found favour with god so presumably all races were equal in his eyes before then.. so then, what basis is there, if any, for deciding what adam and eve's skin colour may have been?.
could they not indeed have been black or blonde or chinese looking?.
this is a pointless discussion i grant you.
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Kent
Since the whole history about Adam and creation is just crap, I guess the correct color is BLUE.
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Looking for an Awake article
by Tina insome time ago there was an awake article about humanitarian aid in africa.
i remember making a post after reading it.
i can't locate the mag.
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Kent
I didn't find the material you are looking for, Tina - but I did find this:
*** g87 3/8 6 Why Can't Africa Feed Itself? ***
The humanitarian motive behind development aid is questioned by many. “Far from aid being charity,” state the authors of the book Famine: A Man-Made Disaster?, “donor countries are getting a bargain. . . . The influence and economic opportunities that both West and East get from aid is cheap at the price.” Development aid has contributed to Africa’s staggering $175,000,000,000 debt.*** g87 6/8 27 Who Can Silence the 'Cry of Hunger'? ***
“At the same time that the outside world gives with one hand, it takes with the other,” states Famine: A Man-Made Disaster?, a report for the Independent Commission on International Humanitarian Issues. “Donor governments,” it continues, “should harbour no illusions. Far from aid being charity, donor countries are getting a bargain.” Why? Because donor countries often get much in return for such aid. Africa, explains the British journal The Ecologist, “remains a major source of supply of crops that we consume daily in the UK. . . . [It] is also a major producer of rubber, cotton, tropical hardwoods, and is increasingly developed as a source of cattle, vegetables and fresh flowers.”*** yb00 15-17 Highlights of the Past Year ***
When civil war in Angola escalated once again during 1999, this resulted in more than 1,700,000 refugees. The brothers have worked diligently to help fellow Witnesses who became refugees, along with many others, to have the basic necessities of life. The 34 tons of food and clothing that were sent from the Italy, Portugal, and South Africa branches were distributed to those who had to abandon both their homes and their cities. It was even possible to get some of these supplies into war zones where bombing has continued for months.
As the service year began, the Congo (Kinshasa) branch notified the Governing Body that in the aftermath of civil war, the branch was in need of relief supplies to assist over 200,000 people. Immediate arrangements were made for the branches in Britain, Belgium, France, Switzerland, and South Africa to ship food and provide funds for purchasing additional supplies in other African countries. More than 75 tons of humanitarian aid were gathered and sent by air from Jehovah’s Witnesses in Europe.
But the fighting in Congo was not over. New crises developed. On February 7, 1999, the following announcement regarding the situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo was made to the Bethel family at the world headquarters in New York: “Due to the civil war, 30,000 publishers in the East of the country are dependent on relief. The branch office in Kinshasa is unable to contact these brothers due to the war. However, the Governing Body has approved for Belgium to bring relief by air. The first flight is during this week and a second mission will start on February 20. With the second mission a medical team will be sent.” The brothers from Europe worked along with 11 officially appointed relief committees made up of Jehovah’s Witnesses in East Congo.
Some of the refugees had fled to nearby countries. Thousands had gone into neighboring Zambia. There relief agencies provided much help; the Witnesses supplemented this with blankets, clothing, and cooking and farming utensils. When one aged brother received a blanket, he fainted. He had never before been given a new blanket that would be his own. As a circuit overseer headed for Zambia, he found a disabled brother under a tree. The circuit overseer loaded him onto his bicycle and pushed it. When the hills were too steep, the brother would get off, and with patches of tire tied to his knees and hands, he would exert himself to move forward on all fours until they got to the top. Eventually, they arrived safely in Kaputa, Zambia. There the branch supplied all with literature in Swahili to use at their congregation meetings. In April, at a meeting with more than 2,000 of these refugees, brothers from the branch office gave loving spiritual encouragement. And the refugees—both adults and children—most of them without songbooks, sang with all their hearts such songs as “Jehovah, Provider of Escape,” “Jehovah Is Our Refuge,” “We Thank You, Jehovah,” and “God’s Promise of Paradise.”*** yb98 44-5 Letting the Light Shine ***
One way that we publicly demonstrate goodwill toward our neighbors is by our active involvement in relief efforts during times of disaster. For example, for people in the Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire), a team, all of whom are Jehovah’s Witnesses, organized humanitarian aid in 1997. With the help of thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Belgium, France, and Switzerland, refugees were supplied with tons of food, clothing, vitamin products, and medicine, as well as 18,500 pairs of shoes and 1,000 blankets, all of which was airlifted to Africa. The value of the supplies provided totaled nearly $1 million (U.S.). These supplies were sent primarily as a gift to Jehovah’s Witnesses, but they were also shared with others.—Gal. 6:10.
The France branch was assisted in the preparation of a brochure containing details about this activity. The brochure was distributed to government officials and members of the news media, acquainting them with examples of what Jehovah’s Witnesses were doing in a positive and practical way to provide assistance to people in need. A number of officials expressed sincere appreciation for this information. They were impressed especially by what was done to ensure that the supplies would be received by those in need and would be distributed in an equitable manner.*** g98 5/8 28 Watching the World ***
The World Council of Churches (WCC), with 330 member churches, has “called for an end to ‘competitive’ attempts by some churches to poach new members from other churches,” reports the ENI Bulletin. The WCC “specifically criticises the use of ‘humanitarian aid’ in developing countries . . . to influence the poor, lonely and uprooted to change their denominational allegiance.” Guidelines were offered to distinguish between an ‘acceptable witness to the Gospel and unacceptable proselytism.’*** g93 9/22 20 World Government-Is the United Nations the Answer? ***
“The United Nations and its various organizations have been so monstrously negligent and incompetent that they have played almost no role at all in alleviating Somalia’s misery.”
The report also charged that some UN officials have been implicated in diversions of food aid, embezzlement of humanitarian assistance, fraudulent procurement, black-marketing, and currency-exchange manipulation. UN investigators found evidence of such fraud in no fewer than seven African countries.*** g92 10/8 13 Shantytowns-Hard Times in the Urban Jungle ***
Why do the prosperous nations not do more to help? Discussing the impact of aid on poverty, the World Bank’s Development Report admits: “Bilateral donors [accounting for 64 percent of all foreign aid] . . . provide aid for many reasons—political, strategic, commercial, and humanitarian. Reducing poverty is only one motive, and it is usually far from the most important.”*** g87 3/8 6 Why Can't Africa Feed Itself? ***
The humanitarian motive behind development aid is questioned by many. “Far from aid being charity,” state the authors of the book Famine: A Man-Made Disaster?, “donor countries are getting a bargain. . . . The influence and economic opportunities that both West and East get from aid is cheap at the price.” Development aid has contributed to Africa’s staggering $175,000,000,000 debt. -
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Aidafrique
by Kent infrench non-governmental organisation aidafrique au vieaaat nam has donated $3,000 for distribution through hcm cityaaaasaaazas sponsor for poor patients.. http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2000-10/31/stories/07.htm.
most of the pages online on aidafrique is in french - and i would hope some of the french-speaking participants on the board could tell us a bit more about this organization.. they work, as i understand, in africa and in viet nam, and i would like to find some information about how much moeny is involved, what projects they are/hav been into, in what connection with the un, and so on.. on this page, http://www.chez.com/labible/articles/rwanda.htm it seems to be pictures og un busses, but as i said - i don't read french.
i would like to know what's said here, though.. .
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Kent
Hi Belbab. I would just show you a speech, on a UN conference for women, by a representative of AidAfrique:
Plenary speech: Kaudjhis-Offoumou
WOMEN'S PEACE PLATFORM
Over the past few years,several resolutions and recommendations have emerged from various international fora to address issues which will enhance human progress and development . The Earth Summit, the Population Conference, the Social Development Summit and the Human Rights Conference, among others, require huge amounts of resources for their implementation. The Global Platform for Action, to be approved at the BeijingUs WomenUs Conference in the next few days, will also need billions of dollars for its implementation. But where will all this money come from? The WomenUs Peace Platform insists that the only place to find these funds to carry out the demands of all these meetings is from the $2 million per minute the world is currently spending on the military. According to UNICEF, children and women bear the severe brunt of war, civil strife and ethnic conflict. Available statistics indicate that during the past decade, more than 1.5 million children were killed, over 4 million permanently disabled, about 12 m illion left homeless and an estimated 10 million traumatised by conflict. Countless numbers of women and girls have been raped. Presently, the world is witnessing untold misery and suffering in several countries affected by armed conflicts. These incl ude the former Yugoslavia in Eastern Europe and Sierra Leone and Liberia in West Africa. The WomenUs Peace Platform calls for the creation of a culture of peace world-wide and an end to the arms trade. It stongly advocates an immediate halt in the production, testing, use and threat of use of nuclear weapons as well as the reduction of ever y nationUs military budget by 5% a year for 5 years, transferring the savings directly to support womenUs and human needs. Seen through womenUs eyes, Peace is not only the absence of war, but the presence of justice, caring and harmony. Women activists who will be organising several Peace Workshops during the NGO Forum this week emphasise that as long as inequities exist in our societies, there can be no peace, as Peace requires the equal and effective participation of women at all levels and in all fields, as well as human rights and justice.--------------------------------------------
Would you say this is a speech the same lady would hold from the platform in a KH? LOL
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Aidafrique
by Kent infrench non-governmental organisation aidafrique au vieaaat nam has donated $3,000 for distribution through hcm cityaaaasaaazas sponsor for poor patients.. http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2000-10/31/stories/07.htm.
most of the pages online on aidafrique is in french - and i would hope some of the french-speaking participants on the board could tell us a bit more about this organization.. they work, as i understand, in africa and in viet nam, and i would like to find some information about how much moeny is involved, what projects they are/hav been into, in what connection with the un, and so on.. on this page, http://www.chez.com/labible/articles/rwanda.htm it seems to be pictures og un busses, but as i said - i don't read french.
i would like to know what's said here, though.. .
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Kent
Let us not question the efforts of AideAfrique, they are certainly commendable.
I never said they weren't - and that's not the question at all! Here we have a WTBTS corp, that cooperates closely with the UN, with politicans and officials, even the army.THAT's the question - if this is a huge hypocricy from the Watchtower according to their own teachings.
The fact they may do some good deeds isn't a question at all. IF that was the question - how come they never wrote majour articles in the Watchtower and Asleep!
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AidAfrique - UN and the WTBTS
by Kent ini believe we can find a lot of interesting, political stuff by investigating this ngo.
did you know the wtbts joined in the ngo forum '95 beijing?
in the plenary schedule we find kaudjhis offoumou, aid afrique.
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Kent
I believe we can find a lot of interesting, political stuff by investigating this NGO. Did you know the WTBTS joined in the NGO Forum '95 Beijing?
In the Plenary Schedule we find KAUDJHIS OFFOUMOU, Aid Afrique. Interestingly, it also says: OTHER UN WOMEN CONFERENCE-RELATED INTERNET RESOURCES, before the links to what this JW representative have to say.
http://csf.colorado.edu/femisa/sep96/0020.html
It seems this is a UN conference for Women.
http://www.igc.org/beijing/plenary/Check up the Aidafrique link on the main board as well, http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=14895&site=3
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Aidafrique
by Kent infrench non-governmental organisation aidafrique au vieaaat nam has donated $3,000 for distribution through hcm cityaaaasaaazas sponsor for poor patients.. http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/2000-10/31/stories/07.htm.
most of the pages online on aidafrique is in french - and i would hope some of the french-speaking participants on the board could tell us a bit more about this organization.. they work, as i understand, in africa and in viet nam, and i would like to find some information about how much moeny is involved, what projects they are/hav been into, in what connection with the un, and so on.. on this page, http://www.chez.com/labible/articles/rwanda.htm it seems to be pictures og un busses, but as i said - i don't read french.
i would like to know what's said here, though.. .
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Kent
The JWs are "neutral" - Yeah, Right!¨
From a Watchtower site - translated by robot:
Louviers, Wednesday March 29, 2000 - Its Excellence Kassim Mr. J Mwawado, ambassador of Tanzania, were received today by caritative association Aidafrique. The visit of the offices and the warehouses of Louviers was the occasion for the ambassador to thank association for its interventions in East Africa.
During the reception, Mr. Loïc Domalain, vice-president of Aidafrique association and doctor responsible for the missions in Tanzania, evoked the five interventions carried out by association in this country during three last years. After having pointed out the essential role played by the authorities tanzaniennes in the reception and the transit of the humane gifts of Aidafrique association, it thanked them by advance for the actions which them collaboration will still make it possible to carry out.
Mister the Ambassador as for him underlined the fact that, if Tanzania has a long land of welcome history, that is not without causing internal difficulties. He completed his short speech by cordially thanking Aidafrique association, in particular for the 25 tons of clothing collected and conditioned by the religious community of the Witnesses of Jéhovah de Louviers and dispatched on last 17 March bound for Dar be -Salaam.
Aidafrique association exists since 1990. It already organized 16 missions in East Africa, bringing drugs, food, clothing and care with the victims of the civil conflicts taken refuge in ex-Zaire or Tanzania, and this without ethnique, racial or religious distinction.
http://www.temoinsdejehovah.org/aides_caritatives/aidafrique/ambassadeur/ambassadeur.htm
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A JW page (software translated) page tells us this:
Aidafrica collaborates with the United Nations (17 June 1999)
This article of "Daily Mail of Zambia" relates the lent aid to the refugees of the Congo. It also explains that this aid of the UNHCR would not have been possible without the narrow collaboration of the Witnesses of Jehovah of France.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/5974/aidafrica.htm
If anyone wondered if Aid Afrique works CLOSE together with the UN, check out this one:
http://www.hambastegi.org/hambastegi/77.htm
On Simon's new forum for cover-ups and scandals, there is another thread on AidAfrique. I feel it really belongs in there.