Posts by kes152

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Aaron teaches Michael did pass judgment.

Find the post where I said that. Please. lol

Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

pomegranate:

Here's your Greek:

'O de Mikhael 'o arkhaggelos, "ote to diabolo
The but Mikhael the arkhangel, when to the Devil

diakrin'omenos dielegeto per'i tou Mouseos
contending he reasoned about of the Moses

somatos, o'uk 'etolmesen krisin epenegkein
of body, not he dared judgement to bear upon

blasphemias, a'll'a e'ipen 'Epitim'esai soi Ku'rios.
blasphemy, but he say May rebuke you the Lord.

This is the Greek translations that I compared with two Greek Bibles. In case you didn't notice.. you just TOLD on yourself. You also quoted "krisin" which means "judgement." You will see "krisin" ALSO in JUDE 6. I guess you'll be speaking with the NIV people.

Peace to you!
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

tracysdad,

Thank you for pointing that out. I missed that scripture in Numbers. I was also 'heard' that in Exodus 19:20, Christ AND Michael were present. Father spoke the Law to Christ who gave it to his servant Moses by the hand of his angel, Michael.

Peace to you,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Francoise,

hehe. Angels ARE spirits. They don't need to be led by God's spirit because they ARE God's spirits. We are not God's spirits. Thus, those of us who are 'led by God's spirit' are God's sons.

Peace to you,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Hi pomegranate,

you asked:

"Where do you see judgement being mentioned?"

Answer: In the Greek from which your English "mis-translation" came from.

Judgement was never mentioned or even insinuated.

you have been misled my dear. Go read the Greek.

You make up your own teaching by rewriting Jude's words.

Actually .. your "translators" did that.

you said:

If Michael surrendered, there would have been NO WAR after the "surrender."

If Michael surrendered ... what? surrendered himself? surrendered Satan? surrendered his trumpet? what?

you said:

Judgement??? You write your own words into Jude again and again.

Uh, nope. that would be your dear "translators."

"Judgement" is never mentioned AT ALL in this text. AT ALL.

That's cuz you got the wrong 'text.' Go back to the Greek, dear.

STILL wishing you PEACE!
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

tracysdad,

May you have peace!

Here is the 'rebuttal' of the paper you sent me. plz forgive me if its legnthy, but the paper itself is legnthy.

He said:

He tells them that their physical and/or spiritual
ancestors, the ancient Israelites, were led out of
Egypt by the Messiah.

Uh, not quite. God's Son followed them out. Michael led the nation out.

He then quotes:

EXODUS 14:19 And the Angel of God, who went before the
camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the
pillar of cloud went from before them and stood behind
them.

This event only occured once while they were on their way to the sea. Michael was used to divide and protect Israel from their adversary. No doubt at this time, Christ who was following them moved in front of them and went before them. When the angel returned to the front of the nation, Christ returned to the rear of the nation. Thus both sides are guarded by the Father.

He says:

the name YHVH, found over 6,800 times in the Old Testament, was applied to God the Father (Deu. 18:15; Psa. 110:1), the Messiah (Exo.
13:21; 19:20; Num 21:6), and even to angels (Gen. 19:18, original Hebrew text).

The scriptures given with reference to the "Messiah" was actually Michael, not the Messiah.

He says:

However, Judges 2:1 confirms that it was the Angel of the LORD (the Angel of God) who led the Israelites out of Egypt and into the Promised Land.

Yes, Michael led them out, the Son followed them out.

He said again:

According to Paul (I Cor. 10:4), this Angel of the LORD was none other than the one who later became Yeshua the Messiah!

Paul says that Christ FOLLOWED them out, not led them. Paul was speaking of Christ. Not Michael who LED them out.

He next says:

Just as the Angel of the LORD was God's messenger to the people of Israel, Christ was also a "messenger" of God the Father in the New Testament. Regarding his role, Yeshua said "I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has told me what to say and what to speak" (John 12:49).

Here's where the 'fun' begins. My Lord said to direct you to Phillippians 2:5-9 and pay CLOSE attention to verse 7.

"But he EMPTIED himself and took the form of a SLAVE and, came to be in the likeness of men."

In the household of God, there is the Father, his wife, his Son who is the "true heir" and "workers" or "messengers." Jesus said "The slave does not remain in the household forever, BUT THE SON REMAINS FOREVER." Jesus carried the 'glory' of a Son, not a 'messenger' in the household. It was not until Jesus demoted himself into the form of men that he BECAME a slave and a "messenger." He was made 'a little lower than the angels.' He was not just demoted to the level of angels, but LOWER than angels. so during his time on earth, as quoted in John 12:49, he was a messenger.

He says:

In I Corinthians 10:9 Paul again clearly identifies the YHVH who accompanied the Israelites in their desert sojourn as Christ.

Yes, Christ was there and also his angel Michael was there.

I CORINTHIANS 10:9 Nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted [Christ], and were destroyed by serpents;

The Lord said:

"If you see me, you see the Father. He that hates me, hates my Father also."(So if we put Jesus to the test, we put his Father to the test also.)

Whenever Israel complained against Moses, Moses said "It is not us you are complianing against, but you are complaining against God." (Ex. 16:8). Hence, if we argue with Michael, we are not arguing with Michael, but with God. Michael is not involved at all. If we argue against Jesus, because Jesus is our LORD Is is the EXACT same as arguing against the Father. Christ takes it personally, and so does the Father. If we argue against Mi'chael, Michael does not take it personally. He's just a 'hear and obey.'

He said:

Both the Old and New Testaments show that this YHVH was the Angel who acted as the primary spokesman for God the Father.

Actually, Moses and the angel were not involved. It was a murmuring between Israel, and the Father and Jesus. Moses and Michael were just "there to witness it."

Here is more proof that the 'angel' is not Christ. The Father said:

" Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. "

Jesus pardons our sins. The angel doesn't.

More later... I'll let you respond to this first.

Peace,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Michael verbally bashed Satan in Jude, and "physically" trashed him in Revelation out of the heavens. So...explain this "surrender"...(of which the context does NOT support)

First... nothing "physical" ever happens in the heavens. "Physical" things are only in the "physical" realm. Everything done in the SPIRIT REALM are done spiritually. Not "symbolically" or "metaphorically" but 'spiritually.'

Second... Michael had a 'dispute' with the Adversary regarding Moses body. Rather than Michael bring a judgement against him in ABUSIVE TERMS (altohugh your stating he verbally "bashed" him; which Jude did NOT say) he SURRENDERED Satan to the authority of the Lord by saying, " May the LORD rebuke you."

After Michael SURRENDERED Satan to the AUTHORITY of the Lord, the Lord then told Michael to war and remove Satan from his place. Michael 'heard' and obeyed. None of what Michael did was from "Michael".. Michael let all that orginate from the Lord and Michael just 'obeyed as he heard.' Michael would not bring judgement against him, he surrendered that 'decision' to the Lord.

Peace to you,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Tracysdad,

Peace to YOU!
Aaron

6

Why do JWs still celebrate Memorial

by Theo Cratz in

jw
friends

it has always puzzled me why jehovah's witnesses still celebrate the memorial.

after all if it says in 1 corinthians 11:26.

"for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the lord's death till he returns".

kes152

Hello all, peace to ALL of YOU!

I met several witnesses in their street work and asked all of them why they celebrated the memorial.

They answered saying, "Because Jesus commanded us to."

So I asked, "Didn't he only command those who 'ate and drank?' " (I couldn't say 'partake' because they would stop talking or change the conversation)

They answered; "Yes. but its for all to attend."

I said "Oh really, where? because everywhere in the bible, EVERYONE who EVER attended ATE and DRANK."

So after they heard that they agreed and said, "That's because they all had that hope. But we who don't have the heavenly hope need to commemorate his death by being there and 'showing appreciation.' "

So I said, "Why do you have to attend the memorial to do that. Can't you 'commemorate' his death by preaching? For the very BASIS of preaching REQUIRES you to "remember his death."

They were quiet.

So I said, "Ok, what was that scripture that said 'all can attend?' "

so while they were looking for the 'scripture,' the spirit told me that they are not going to find it because they know that if they do, it will tell them they also must partake.

So they later stopped and said, "We don't know, we'll have to 'research it.' "

I was like "okayyy. Sure. Where can I see you again, same place?"

They said, "Yeah, in about 2 weeks."

I went back, never saw them again.

Go figure.

Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

pomegranate,

lol, Michael did not have to "own or possess" Satan in order to "surrender him over."

you know that say... you adversary at law does not need to 'own' you or 'possess' you in order to surrender you to the Judge. Or Paul did not need to 'own' or 'possess' Hymenaeus or Alexander to "surrender" them to Satan. Remember the definition of 'surrender?'

1 Timothy 1:20
Matthew 5:25

"to YIELD (something) to the possession or POWER of ANOTHER,"

Notice the definition does not say you HAVE to OWN it first. Anything that is yielded to the OWNERSHIP of ANOTHER is a "surrender."

"No comment on Revelation eh?"

Revelation was not the topic... the phrase in Jude 9 was the topic, namely ... Did Michael "rebuke" by saying "May the Lord rebuke you?" Now UNLESS you see that "phrase" again in Revelation... there is NO need for me to comment on it.

Peace to you!
Aaron