Posts by kes152

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

My dear, dear, DEAR pomegranate:

you said:

"Read your definition. "

I did.

you said:

"Michael neither submitted HIS own power or was HE under any duress to give up on anything. "

I didn't say that either. Perhaps this time you should READ MY POST and really pay attention to the WORDS I SAID as opposed to the words you THOUGHT I said.

I wrote ... very clearly and very legibly that Michael SURRENDERED Satan to the Lord. I did NOT say Michael surrendered HIS own power nor did I say Michael was "under duress to give up on anything."

Pay attention this time. If you read the dictionary like you read my posts.. no doubt you've mis-quoted the dictionary also. For you CLEARLY mis-rebutted my post. Please keep in mind.. that "surrender" does not only mean "to give up." Read ALL the definitions.

Peace to you!
Aaron

34

Why did you get baptized?

by NoLongerAjw in

jw
friends

was it for love of the kingdom hall and jehovah?

pressure .. felt like you had to?

for me it was because all my friends my age had gotten baptized.. and it was left up to me to do it too.. to fit in i guess.

kes152

Larc,

I must be the one of the exceptions here, because I did it because I really did want to dedicate my life to Jehovah.

I'm with you on that.

When they went over the 'questions' with me... i REFUSED to bring my book and i only had my bible. I was 'counseled' on it the "three" times i met with them (by "not" being prepared). I merely told them... "all I need is the Bible." Of course.. when it got to the point about the 'faithful and discreet slave' and about being known as a 'Jehovah's witness'... I kept hearing this voice say 'That's not right, that's not right.' so when I 'tried' to show scriptures on it.. I was stumbling through the scriptures.... Go figure!

Man! I wish I knew what I know now. then again.. I think its better for me to know now, than before. For no doubt I would have been more of a coward. Anyways...

Peace!
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Greetings pomegranate,

May you have peace!

you said:

So Mr. Aaron, what exactly were Michael's words to Satan's ridiculous request?

All your answers rebutt mine without saying exactly what Michael's words are termed...

please define and term them with one word, without using any words of admonishment.

No problem! Michael ... by saying "May the Lord rebuke you" was SURRENDERING Satan to the Lord. Michael, by saying this ... handed Satan over to the AUTHORITY of the Lord so that the Lord would rebuke him.

The definition for 'surrender' is as follows:

(1.)to YIELD (something) to the possession or POWER of ANOTHER, (2.)deliver up something on demand or under duress.. etc.

One can 'surrender' his soul to the authority of another, one can 'surrender' his child to the authority of another, during a DISPUTE I can 'surrender' my opponent to my Lord (and perhaps he may rebuke my opponent), etc.

Peace to you,
Aaron

26

Organised Religion

by aud8 in

if none of you believe in organised religion then who is the "faithful and discreet slave" mentioned in the bible?

kes152

First.. you must understand that the 'congregation' is the body of Christ. Believers 'anointed by holy spirit' make up the "church." So when Paul(?) wrote letters to the church, it was letters to the anointed ones (not kingdom halls or buildings)... wherever they are. The word 'congregation' is equivalent to "anointed ones." Somewhere down the line.. the WTBTS "changed" the word 'church/congregation' to mean sections of Jehovah's witnesses. There was only one church. JWs have many churches. In the scriptures .... the church was made up of only anointed ones. In the WTBTS 'church' is made up of all JWs in a certain Hall.

The "elders" among the body of Christ are called "older men" in the NWT. There were alot of young ones who made up the church and there were older men who also made up the church. The 'older men' were anointed who were "up in age" ... nothing more. They all carried the same responsibilty of teaching and encouraging the UNbelievers.

Peace to you,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

tracysdad

I look forward to it, and may peace be INCREASED to you!

Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Hey Pomegrante:

you said:

"May the Lord rebuke you!"

And if it HIS will.. he will rebuke me.

you also said:

Your words have just been checked by MY rebuke to YOU.

LOL, even IF you rebuked me.. why would you say "May the Lord rebuke you?" Unless you are the Lord. If you are not the Lord then, you SHOULD have SAID:

"May the Lord and I rebuke you!"

This would have made more sense, because you said:

Your words have just been checked by MY rebuke to YOU.

But, because you said:

"May the Lord rebuke you!"

You have CEASED from speaking to me and have TURNED ME OVER to the Lord. You did this so that THE LORD can rebuke me. Now, if the Lord chooses NOT to rebuke me.. then your "turning me over" attained to no value, because the Lord denied YOUR REQUEST for him to rebuke me.

Understand now?

Still wishing you peace!
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Greetings tracysdad!

"Paul said that the "rock" that followed the Israelites out of Egypt was Christ. Reference later... "

Is this the reference?

"and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ. "

1 Corinthians 10:4

In Exodus 23:20-23 the angel, Michael went before and led the sons of Israel and Christ was the "rock" that followed the sons of Israel. Hence, Michael was in front, Jesus was behind. Michael is the prince of Israel, and Jesus is the "heir" of Israel. That is why Jesus said:

"NO ONE stands strongly WITH ME in these things except Mi'chael, the prince of YOU people."

Daniel 10:21

Only Michael and Jesus are strongly involved with Israel. Michael is 'guardian' of the 'ark,' hence "arkangel." Jesus is the propitiatory 'cover' or "mercy seat" of which Michael SITS ON and covers so as to PROTECT.

Exodus 25:17-22
Hebrews 9:5
1 John 2:2

To Moses, this "Angel" who is appearing at the bush says He is God. Can the created angel Michael go around representing God & recieve worship?

Umm... not quite. Michael.. when speaking to Moses only spoke what Michael heard. God spoke to his Word, and the word spoke to Michael the words of the Father. Michael spoke EXACTLY what he heard through holy spirit word-for-word. Michael never mentioned himself at all. He was the 'mouth' of God doing abosolutely nothing but "speaking the EXACT words" he heard, as he heard them. Any responses Moses made to him, God spoke for the angel and the angel repeated. When Israel worshipped, they worshipped God. Angels were used only as an 'appearance' so that Israel would see that the worship was accepted. They did not "represent" God.. they were a visible 'confirmation' FROM God that the sons of Israel had done well.

May you have peace!
Aaron

26

Organised Religion

by aud8 in

if none of you believe in organised religion then who is the "faithful and discreet slave" mentioned in the bible?

kes152

Greetings Aud8,

you said:

Also various scriptures suggest the Jehovah was a God of organization, setting up priests to keep order among the people.

Reading in Hebrews, the writer talks about that 'arrangement' AND what the 'arrangement' is TODAY. He said:

"For you have NOT approached that which can be felt and which has been set aflame with fire and a dark cloud and thick darkness and a tempest, and the blare of a trumpet and the voice of words; on hearing which voice the people implored that no word should be added to them. And the command was not bearable to them: "And if a beast touches the mountain it must be stoned." Also the display was so fearsome that Moses said: "I am fearful and trembling."

ok, so we didn't approach this type of 'arrangement' that Jehovah initiated...

"But you HAVE approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and tens of thousands of angels to all-assembly and the congregation of the firstborn who have been written off in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the SPIRITS of righteous ones who have been made perfect, and Jesus the MEDIATOR of a NEW COVENANT, and the blood of sprinkling which speaks in a better way than Abel's."

Hebrews 12:18-24

THIS is the 'organization' we HAVE approached. If you look in your NWT Reference Edition ... you will see the footnote for "spiritual lives" to mean LITERALLY "spirits." So that means there is the church of the firstborn in heaven, and spirits of righteous ones made perfect. Thus all heavenly. And this is all the "organization" we need, a 'heavenly' one. The former "organization" has passed away. We approach and belong to the heavenly one. The first one was earthly, the BETTER one is heavenly. Moses was 'earthly,' Jesus is heavenly.

Peace to you,
Aaron

53

Is Michael the Angel of the Lord?

by tracysdad in

joshua 5:13-15. exactly who is this "commander of the lord's army?

" rev.

12:7 michael & his angels throw satan out of heaven.

kes152

Michael CRITICIZED Satan, he REPRIMANDED in that sentence. He "checked and repressed" Satan's conduct of the Moses body incident.

Re-read that sentence.

All he said was "The Lord rebuke thee." If you look up CRITICIZE you will see it means:

"to censure or find fault with. to JUDGE or or DISCUSS the merits and faults of. "

So please find where Michael "judged" and "discussed" so as to find fault with, by him ONLY saying "the Lord rebuke thee." This one sentence does NOT do all that. As you can see more is required. Not only that but Michael did not judge, but "comitted" all the judging to the One that DOES judge. and it is THIS Judge that will and does rebuke Satan.

Peace,
Aaron

4

Bible Chapters...

by Mr Magoo in

can anyone give me a list over the names/labels in the bible (john, jerimiah, psalms...) in the order they appear.. or a list with the names/labels translated into danish... i'm having a hard time looking up verses i find in this forum, in my danish bible.. (actually i don't have a bible - but it's on the internet).. thank you.

take care.

mr. magoo

kes152

Here you go:

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther

Job
Psalms
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
Song of Songs

Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Acts

Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon

Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude

Revelation