gorby and his lovely wife had during dinner a chat about watchtower hypocrisy.
she faded with me since 2007 and shows sometimes affection for the organization.. we talked about the gb and ray franz.. she asked me if she could read my ray franz books.. now i have a dilemma.
the books gave me a hard time in the '90.. i know the ray franz truth can hurt and shock her so much.
I would agree with the healing comments.... I have tried to get my mother and some friends who are out but still think "its the closest thing" to the truth.
You are hammered w/ so much black and white that its good to see in print that you can disagree respectfully and still have love for your god.
pbrow
and for those reasons, coj wanted in the beginning, to stay with the organization, just like bill bowens.
that is all carl wanted.
yes, as members of the governing body, they knew full well, exactly what carl's writings meant.
MARKED
>time to find a new religion.. >richard.
richmac to be).
>even then, there is a time to love and a time to hate.. .
I bet your children hate/hated "life lesson" talks with you!!
pbrow
in oregon, during the 4th of july weekend, troopers will be conducting checkpoints to see if someone has been drinking.
if someone refuses a breath test, they will be forced to have their blood extracted from them.. what do you think of this?.
If an officer sees you driving aotr, pulls you over and then smells alcohol you can still refuse breathalyzer but a warrant can be obtained. In the case of a road block I would consider it every drivers duty to refuse to give a breath sample simply because this is AMERICA. Nothing was witnessed, no probable cause. It amazes me that owi road blocks are legal here
pbrow
i was recently at a baseball game with friends and family when i learned something new.
beer had been drunk and the men made their way to the men's room to relieve themselves.
when they got back i asked them what took them so long.
My wife only poops once a year.... and even then its just little rabbit sized turds. At least thats what she tells me...
pbrow
my dad told me this story long time ago.
there was an long time elder that is never married.
he got caught going to brothel one day after a brother followed him there.
"My friend freaks out, calls elders, tells them what he has done."
"My friend hits the roof she is livid she embarks on this one woman mission to destroy this SOB."
"Right now she has got him, my friend and the young sis travel about 2hrs across the city to the branch and refuse to leave until someone listens to their story. (She and him used to be in bethel so she knew a few people there)."
I have been divorced and I remember being so furious I was almost at the point of being manic. I am glad I was able to recognize it and see it for the life destroying force that it was. I hope for your friends sake she is able to lose the "I am right" attitude and just move on. If she can she will truly be happier. I have found though that people who love to be right have a hard time moving on..
pbrow
my dad told me this story long time ago.
there was an long time elder that is never married.
he got caught going to brothel one day after a brother followed him there.
Sparrow... it sounds like your friend needed to learn how to move on..... but I guess we are talking about a person who does not have it in them to get out of a cult (hopefully she wakes up soon)
pbrow
read this earlier on jwtalk in a thread about if the 100 years of the kingdom is part of the 1000 year reign.. actually this question goes back to how the brothers believed and saw things back in bro.
russell's day.
they thought 6000 years of human history and christ's second presence began in 1874, ( their chronology was 100 years off from that which we now accept - this was corrected in the 1940s ) believing such they thought the 1000 year reign began at that time.
Hey cofty,
My mother is still in and is doing the exact same thing now. A family friend has all the old "studies" books from our old hall she would read them when she got the chance. Stunned is a good word.
When they read it for themselves it has an enourmous impact not only because of what those old books actually say but because of what we were all told they said. A perfect example is the "advertise, advertise speech" I told her to find the transcript from the entire speech and see if that talk means the same thing to her.
pbrow
i have spoken to %90 of mymfriends & family.. and i have found that there are 3 basic reasons why people stay.. .
1. god has always had an organization.
the organization has never been perfect, but he has always had one.. 2. i know a lot of things are wrong, bit where else can i go?
backseatdevil...
"So from my view, the reasons for staying in would be lack of strength to leave, lack of education, social stability, or trying to "keep the peace" between family members (although if staying in is the only thing keeping the family at peace, it's prehaps best to just RUN AWAY and start a new family, lol)."
That is awesome!!
If your family or friends will disown you for not believing in 1914, or some other vapid "truth" than they are not really your friend or family.
pbrow
on one hand, he's enlightnened many to the internal circle jerk that is the governing body (circa the 70s).. but if there's one reason that can be pointed to for the jws becoming full on cult, it's ray franz.
without him leaving in the manner he did, and stirring the pot, they might not have change the rule (retroatively i might add) on shunning of disassociated ones.
they specifically changed that so they could remove him and eliminate his influence.. his actions single handedly have created the situation where we have to fade, evade, leave marriages, say goodbye to family, just because we don't buy the jw bullsh!t anymore.
I dont think you can blame cult like actions from a cult on a former member of the cult. The were already a full on cult and they proved themselves by doing everything they could to shut up one of their own high ranking members. The scientologists did the exact same thing with Mike Rinder. You cant blame Rinder for waking up and you cant blame Franz for waking up either.
Rays actions were simply Ray being true to himself. The cult simply acted like any cult would. Thats what cults do. If I can help one person see the organization for what it is I am a happy man. Ray has helped tens of thousands, maybe even a million.
I thank Ray for helping to open my eyes to this cult and showing me that personal freedom is infintely more important than tip toeing around an ideal so that I can keep a few "friends" or "family" members.
pbrow
