Posts by Hoffnung

118

"Look it wasn't a global flood.."

by Qcmbr in

i've heard the statement from bible apologists so many times that the global flood story of genesis was not a global flood but was probably a local flood.

this seems problematic.. this directly disagrees with the bible.

everywhere the bible internally references a global flood of worldwide scale (i'll throw in matthew 24:39 as a nt example and genesis 6:17 as a ot example.

Hoffnung

There are no eye-witnesses of the flood. All others cannot prove or disprove too much, as their is not really conclusive evidence against or for either case, just indications at best. Why all these discussions? Limiting your imagination to what humans can achieve today or a non-eyewitness report of the event 1000 years later, cannot be sufficient to provide us an all details covering explanation. Just remember, it is not the purpose of the bible. And whatever others have said about the use of the word 'earth' and 'world' in hebrew in Greek is also true.

If you would have unlimited resources at your disposal, and would have concluded to remove every living being on the planet by water, why should you limit yourself to using only rain? Why not using some extra gravity to make water raise and drop (let the moon come near, or another satelite or comet)? Or use some extreme wind force to push up levels? Or using some magnetic distortion with the same effect? Or a combination of all of it? The options are unlimited, really. Any of these means would:

- leave almost no traces, after more then 4000 years

- achieve the goal of killing all humans

- having the mountains covered in one area while in other areas the ocean is nearly empty is not a problem

- Solve the problem of sufficient water volume, the volume in the oceans is enough as supply

- still leave the possibilty of letting the flooding in the Iraq-Turkey area last longer then anywhere else, making it possible the arch ended up on the Ararat.

If you can believe God created the universe, creating a flood of moving waters all over the globe is actually nothing really major to do. Just imagine yourself with enormous (divine) power with a set challenge to make the flood happen. Would you limit yourself to just using rain? I don't think so... I think the only debatable point is the moment of the event, but that is another topic.

Did I prove the global flood? No. I only made it a possibility. If you want to believe in God and the bible, then try to think about his possibilities, even magic is in reach. If you want to discredit the bible and God, you will find the means to do so. Either way, your motivation is your drive and cause, and it will define your arguments. Who is correct? We will only find out later on.

17

Yes, Brother Soldier77, I see you haven't turned in your time for the month...

by Soldier77 in

jw
friends

so i get the call a couple weeks ago from the secretary concerning my time for the month.

he called on a thursday and said that he is looking forward to seeing me at the meeting tonight and to make sure i turn in my time for the month.

" all the while thinking, yeah right, i'm not even going to be at the meeting let alone turn in my fake time!.

Hoffnung

If you need a new years resolution, so be it. It is a very important step to quit reporting, and to quit means reporting Nothing at all. from now on. I am inactive already more than this 6 months period, and indeed, as soon as your status changes from irregular to inactive, the elders almost want you to remain like that, no kiddin'. In the beginning the secretary asked me as well, and my reply was: I am sorry but I have nothing to report. From all the 7 elders only 1 has asked me 1 time to go in service in more then 6 months. I said I would do it, and called the next day that something came up, so I could not be there. The funny bit: nobody has ever asked why I stopped going in service, and I am still quite regular on the meetings. One more proof that most elders are not personnally interested in you, you are just a means to increase the statistics and make them look better in the eyes of their 'boss-supervisor' aka CO. I am not going to waste any more minute on that. That is my resolution as well. Stick to your word, Soldier77.

5

typical witnesses !!!

by warmasasunned in

jw
friends

a friend of mine x jw like myself, works as a window cleaner on a road where a family of active jws live.

he watched a situation develop over a say a year were they started a bible study with a local neighbour and eventually he became a jw himself.. now this fella was a bit of a odd bod, looked odd, dressed odd, generally made people feel a little uncomfortable, but not a bad person lets use an often used phrase in england "an eccentric".. well of course he showed a little bit of interest, pherhaps he was lonely.

well of course he was really fussed over by is local jw neighbours, bible study,.

Hoffnung

Pharisees. Turned off by their own "success". What a joke! 1st all this efforts to seduce/convert him, and now they run away from him. self-induced problems. They should have respected the bloke for what he was.

16

How does it feel to be reinstated ?

by Pitchess Co-Gen in

i've been disfellowshipped for about 2 years now and i was wondering whats it like to be reinstated ?

.

Hoffnung

It depends what your reasons are. I have made the experience. It is weird to say the least. I believed I had to do it, to clear myself of the guilt of my own mistake, and to have contact with my own family. I have made some comments in the threads below:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/202861/1/High-Profile-Case-Seeking-Reinstatement

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/202954/1/What-the-WT-requires-for-reinstatement

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/203516/1/For-those-who-have-been-reinstated-OR-elders-xelders-who-have-sat-in-on-meetings

Hopefully you find some answers in those threads. Good luck. Hoffnung

206

I need a show of hands: who believes the Bible and to what extent?

by Terry in

i'll start off.. i don't believe anything is divine about bible writings.

i believe there may be some marginal history although not much.

i think alot of folk tales and regional myths are contained in the old testament.

Hoffnung

I am raising my hand. I am a believer in the bible. I also would like to second what Syl has written.

That said, I have not yet clearly defined the extent to what I believe it yet. At the moment I feel that the accounts about the creation and the snake story are fiction. Moses was not an eyewitness, and I think he merely repeated the popular Jewish creation story of that moment. Same for a worldwide flood, although a local flood in the Turkey Iraq area seemed to have happened, but on an earlier moment then what the bible said. So far I think we can believe whatever the writer wrote about his own time, things from which he was an eye witness or had access to witnesses of the event. So far no archeological finds have proven that the bible was wrong, as far as I know. It is also noteworthy that the bible was a forbidden book for a long time in the post-Jesus history, and what religions have made from the bible, that has nothing to so with God. Church history cannot be used as an argument for or against the bible IMO. And yes, the writers were imperfect humans, and they colored what they wrote. I also think the bible in its current accepted form is incomplete. Also fulfilled prophecy argues for the bible. What about Jesus warning the christians to flee Jerusalem. Is that not proven to have happened, and they indeed fled? or the way Babylon was conquered by the Persians, after 70 years of supremacy? If you can imagine yourself in the feet of people living at the time, with way less general knowlege and the world being limited to 1/3 of a continent, chances are likely that the bible can be accepted as a divine book.

Hoffnung

27

I am so F******G angry today

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

i am so angry today.

angry because i have to waste my time/use my time to fight this fucking retard of a religion.

angry that i have to spend my time trying to influence them to think.

Hoffnung

Aussie OZ, big hugs from the other side of the world. You're angry because you care. I had sh** day yesterday too. You can win this war, even if you lose a battle or 2.

28

Questions for Doubtfully yours or Elpiro - The happy annointed Jehovah's Witness

by Hoffnung in

jw
friends

hello doubtfully yours or el piro or other happy jw,.

there are 4 questions for you.

1. the issue i have is with paragraphs 1 & 8 of the study article on page 21 of the 15/09/2010 watchtower.

Hoffnung

I agree with Brotherdan. We might not have noticed, but because of the strong increase in WT articles praising the Governing Body and its doctrines and policies, and adding the continuous fear from the outside (the voice of strangers...), discouraging independent thinking, the free interchange of ideas has completely stopped amongst JW. Asking a question that could be interpreted as questioning the authority GB, will get you a very cold treatment from the bros. and sisters in the congos. Their mind has made a significant swing to the conservative side, and we will have to take that into account if we want to reach their reasoning faculties without all the preprogrammed defense barriers and mechanisms popping up. Let us face it, JW are not prepared for heated debates any more, their reaction on the door would be to leave your house. Let us think about it before we post.

21

So has the wt given up on prophecy altogether or what?

by agonus in

jw
friends

for decades they've produced massive tomes on their own peculiar brand of wt-centric prophecy, but it seems like the production of prophecy-related material as of late has slowed to a trickle, their last prophecy-related book that i can recall was the minor-prophets book released a few years back.

however that book if i recall was very vague in its exposition, focusing on daily life application rather than eschatology.

and yet the armageddon-end-times-obedience-"generation" drumbeat grows faster and louder with less and less exposition as to how or when exactly any of this is supposed to play out.

Hoffnung

Freddie Franz is dead. They have no scholar that can replace him, or even write a book that could measure up to what he wrote. Their own fault, independent thinking and free interchange of thought is not allowed any more, so none of the witnesses would even DARE to come with new prophecy ideas. Not even the overlap generation was backed up by anything more then a few paragraphs hidden in an article that had nothing to do with it. So they ran out of ideas and just keep on shouting things from the past. This organization has 7 leaders but no vision. The wagon is riding high speed in one direction since the 90ies and the guys on the steering wheel don't know how to turn it. They have not yet found the brakes either. To hide their lack of intelligence their output is reduced to tiny but extremely boring how-to-make-the-bible-fit-the-watchtower-ideas-pocket-books like the ones about Jeremiah, Acts and Jesus, and the bookstudy is cut by 50%, so they have to write less books too. No verse by verse discussions, no context provided. very well observed.

28